The Welsh I learnt in school

Well I’m through to lesson 16 on course 1 now, and something that struck me was the new words I’ve heard when I was expecting something else. For example, cwpla when I expected gorffen, mas instead of allan, etc. Now I went to school in the south but wasn’t taught these words that are in the southern course. It just made me wonder, how is the language taught in school now? Is it taught in a standard way or is taught depending on what part of the country you’re in or where your teacher comes from? Really enjoying learning, and the funny looks I get in the gym as I wheel away on the bike talking to myself in Welsh! :slight_smile:

SSIW deliberately teaches really very informal Welsh for the most part.

The bad news is some of it will be different from what learners are commonly taught on other courses.

The GOOD news is some of it will be different from what learners are commonly taught on other courses - so you won’t sound like a learner, you’ll sound like a speaker, even when you’re only a speaker of a little bit of it!

I’m doing the gog course, probably for no other reason than the fact that my wife spent 5 years in north Wales at primary school age, and has a brother living in that part of the world, so that’s our main connection with Wales.

However, although I learn “llefrith”, she learned “llaeth”, and she wonders why I say “yndw”, where she expects “ydw…”.

Anyway, having recently been on the southern bootcamp, I’m now much much more relaxed about these variations, and just take them in my stride. It just adds to the rich variety of this wonderful language.

If I’ve learnt one thing it’s not to presume the dialects are divided behind neat lines. I hear people using north and south words in one sentence. In fact I heard someone on TV once say Dweud (pronounced northern way) and Gweud within a couple of sentences. I’ve heard “Allan” with “Fe” and dozens of other examples. I think accent is more easily divided into areas that the words. The only one that seems solid is gen i - I don’t think I’ve heard a southerner say Mae gen i …

Anyone noticed the new forum is glitchy? This is my third attempy to reply.

Hi Antonio,

What I’ve noticed is that schools across Wales do teach a more formal standard Welsh where this course teaches the Welsh you will hear in Welsh speaking families and communities. But even then you’ll noticed differences. I currently work in Llanelli and almost have the staff in work are Welsh speaking, although all are generally from the South West, you will hear cwpla and gorffen. Although this course has taught my cwpla I frequently switch between that and gorffen during conversations and never been misunderstood.

You’ll find almost every valley will use slight different words now and again, the important thing is not to worry. When I’m watching S4C and listening to Radio cymru I hear lots of differences between the people even from the same place.

Phil

Anyone noticed the new forum is glitchy? This is my third attempy to reply.

What happened the first twice?

Dw i’n caru Leia’s little description -

"The bad news is some of it will be different from what learners are commonly taught on other courses.

The GOOD news is some of it will be different from what learners are commonly taught on other courses - so you won’t sound like a learner, you’ll sound like a speaker, even when you’re only a speaker of a little bit of it!"

Yes! I didn’t learn any Welsh in school but as I go around showing off my new phrases to my friends here who did learn Welsh in school what surprises them most is how good my accent is and how natural it sounds :slight_smile:

Bontddu: The only one that seems solid is gen i - I don’t think I’ve heard a southerner say Mae gen i …

And yet, they say “mae’n ddrwg gen it”, don’t they? (when they are not saying “sori” :slight_smile: ). I’ve often wondered about that.

(nb my experience is mainly limited to Pobol y Cym and random R. Cymru. Didn’t hear it much at all in my recent Tresaith Bootcamp week.

wondersheep (Kev) posted about 2 hours ago
Anyone noticed the new forum is glitchy? This is my third attempy to reply.

What happened the first twice?

I can’t remember the exact phrase but a new page appeared with some error slogan. ‘Sorry but something has gone wrong’. it seems to happen when I click preview.

Back on topic, my mother is a southern Welsh speaker and she says gen I for I’m sorry for uses gyda fi or da fi the rest of time. I also hear for I’m sorry is ‘mae’n flaen da fi’ instead of drwg.

Phil

Mike Ellwood says: And yet, they say “mae’n ddrwg gen it”, don’t they? (when they are not saying “sori” :slight_smile: ).

I’ve always said “mae’n ddrwg 'da fi”. That’s what I was taught on bonus lesson 6!
That said, I haven’t yet heard anyone else say it in either way when I’ve been around Abertawe neu Sir Benfro…

Chwarae teg Gavin. Up to recently, I hadn’t listened to much of the southern courses, but that’s something I’m aiming to put right from now on.

Bontddu: I don’t think I’ve heard a southerner say Mae gen i …

I’ve heard a few, but they are people who learned the language in a Welsh-medium school as opposed to within the family. So it’s probably that their teacher came from the North, as Antonio said above.

Bontddu: I don’t think I’ve heard a southerner say Mae gen i …

My kids go to school in Barry, and they say “gen i” at school. Also, they don’t use cwpla, moyn, dihuno, disgwyl etc. The eldest concedes that they exist, but says “We don’t talk like that at our school!”. I wonder if it is policy for the Welsh schools to be moving towards standardisation?

Hi Sonia,

I’ve heard a few parents mention the same thing in the past.

I frequently hear cwpla, moyn, dihuno, disgwyl on S4C, do your children watch s4c? Just wonder what they make of it after they hear it being spoken (if they understand it etc).

I guess the government are just trying to find some middle ground/standard for southern/northern Welsh. Otherwise it would become difficult to teach. Each valley uses slightly different words and I guess we can’t teach on an individual basis. I know local to me, people from Gwendraith valley can speak slightly different words from the next valley over i.e Amman valley etc…

I’m interested to know who decides what words should be taught. One of my sisters, my mother and I use moyn, where my younger sister who was taught Welsh in EM education uses esiau.

Hi Sonia,

I’ve heard a few parents mention the same thing in the past.

I frequently hear cwpla, moyn, dihuno, disgwyl on S4C, do your children watch s4c? Just wonder what they make of it after they hear it being spoken (if they understand it etc).

I guess the government are just trying to find some middle ground/standard for southern/northern Welsh. Otherwise it would become difficult to teach. Each valley uses slightly different words and I guess we can’t teach on an individual basis. I know local to me, people from Gwendraith valley can speak slightly different words from the next valley over i.e Amman valley etc…

I’m interested to know who decides what words should be taught. One of my sisters, my mother and I use moyn, where my younger sister who was taught Welsh in EM education uses esiau.

In a way the "which version should schools " teach is a red herring.

You think English class teachers sit racking their brains whether to make kids write “daps” instead of “trainers” or “plimsolls” or “gym shoes” or “running shoes”?

A good teacher of any language will explain that yep there’re variations. It’s a feature not a bug and that the real world is messier than the classroom.

That’s not easy with kids and even some adults because school is very much driven by “getting the right answer” and it takes even some adults a long time to shake off that notion. Whereas actual conversation doesn’t really have “a right answer”

Or if it does it’s of the annoying boolean logic type: “Should I say isio or moyn?” to which the answer is, of course,“Yes”…

Bless you Leia for reminding me of the word “daps”. That’s what we called them in Gloucester, when I was growing up there. I have since learned that it’s also used in parts of south Wales. I think my northern English parents had another word, and my northern English in-laws, yet another, so yes…long live variety.

We have pumps in Shropshire.

Yep, I use daps too! Has anyone ever heard the word jibbon? My family use it instead of spring onions. None of my other Welsh friends use it though. I’m beginning to think we are the only people on the planet who use it. :slight_smile: