SaySomethingin Italian (Beta)

Grazie mille @RichardBuck ! :star2:

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Helo Deborah,

I remember you saying that I had access to the Italian but I am not sure how to find Italian. Is it under automagic?
I did finally re-download my Cymraeg at last! Better late than never eh? :grin:

Shwmae @annmoore!

You canā€™t get to the Italian directly from the website. All the new languages are loaded into the new SaySomethingin app. Thereā€™s a mobile version which you can download and install from the usual app stores, or if you prefer to use a PC or laptop, go to app.saysomethingin.com in a browser. Make sure you log in with the same email address you usually use so the system can link to your account.

Youā€™ll see the choice of languages available to you there.

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Great, thank you Deborah. I thought I might give the Italian a go as my Grandson lives in Italy with his new and gorgous wife.
I havenā€™t been around much so have forgotten how to find my way around the website and forum. Can you tell me how to find the music again please? I tyoed music in the box but could only find posts from years ago. Sorry :person_shrugging:
Anyhow, its nice to hear from you and thank you for the prompt reply.

Is this the thread youā€™re looking for?
Welsh Music Videos and Audio Files

Snagging: after Aran introduces the word conosci and the two voices repeat it, the next prompt (where ā€˜you knowā€™ would be expected) is a longish sentence instead: the voices respond with conosci, as expected.

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I have recently started the Italian course. So excited for this course as I have built up a decent listening comprehension level with podcasts, Youtube, etc but I needed something to get me speaking.

Two quick comments.
One: I have only done 52 minutes and have reached the yellow with black stripe. That seems quite quick to progress 3 levels.

Two: One of the sentences was ā€œYou speak Italian with youā€. Not that it hinders learning the words or phrases, but it is something that no one would sayā€¦

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Thanks for your comments!

Donā€™t worry about the belts - they start slowing down after the first few, and reaching black belt doesnā€™t mean youā€™ve finished the course :slight_smile:

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Just listening to the latest version of the Italian course, and I can notice a few things have already been fixed since the very first version. Well done! :+1:

A couple of things Iā€™ve noticed:
In the Welsh course I did (the one with the challenges, not Automagic), from time to time there was a very short explanation about some words an sentences or something that was going on.

Now Iā€™ve just come across ā€œyou areā€ translated as ā€œstaiā€ .
Of course it is correct in some contexts, and it is easy for me to guess what blocks are going to be introduced next and what sentence youā€™re going to get in the end (present progressive).

However the most common translation of ā€œyou areā€ would be ā€œ(tu) seiā€ - unless youā€™re speaking napoletano. :grin:

Iā€™m fully into learning without need of grammar and too much bla bla in between. But I guess this is a situation when a very quick introduction in the old SSiW version way could be useful, and wondering if thereā€™s ever going to be any (in spoken or written form somewhere as additional notes)
Just sharing a reflection!

Just funny to notice: In the Welsh course of course there were the Northern and Southern version. in the French course, accents seem pretty neutral (as far as I can tell).
In the Italian, the woman is neutral and the man with Roma/center Italy accent! :smile:
Is there a particular reason for the choice or just accidental? (just curious)

Edit, more relevant at the moment: on my android phone the sentences right after this are all a bit out of sync (the one shown on the screen and the audio). Like Aran speaking while text shown is in Italian. Maybe itā€™s my phone but I canā€™t tell!

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Agreed - Iā€™d quite like it even if all we got was, ā€œNow, in some sentences the Italian for ā€˜ifā€™ is cheā€ - building up to Non sono sicuro che possoā€¦ - instead of just ā€˜ifā€™ = ā€˜cheā€™.

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Great to hear your comments @gisella-albertini! :heart: :heart:

Weā€™re definitely trying to stick to ā€œno explanationsā€ as much as possible just because we really want to avoid contributing to people thinking about grammar too much. The presentations are never a perfect match every time in every language anyway, and often phrases with different translations will just get presented many times with the other meanings. I think with those multiple introductions people catch on to the fact that itā€™s not very often a case of x=y. And maybe Iā€™m biased as a napoletano, but I donā€™t mind if some italian learners go round saying ā€œstaiā€ instead of ā€œseiā€ that early on, Iā€™ll just be impressed theyā€™re already breaking away from the practice phrases and trying new things :wink:

But nothing is certain about the future, and weā€™re open to whatever will make it a better course :smile: This is just something to think about carefully before we act, and the comments are a big help. We did play around with the idea of ā€œOne way to say x in Italian isā€¦ā€, and thatā€™s still an option.

With the voices, we had a few options for the male voice, and Dante here just ended up being the best - he spoke a bit slower and clearer than the others and the audio quality was better so it was easy to understand. There were no good options for female voices, so we used one that was originally made for French and the accent is just what the AI thinks she should have in italianā€¦ so that explains the neutrality :smile:

argh with the sync issuesā€¦ Hoping weā€™ll fully crack it in Januaryā€¦ (sorry)

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Ciao, Kai! :slight_smile:

Iā€™m totally for sticking to avoiding grammar and rationalization as much as possible in the course - since it worked so well for me!

At the same time, Iā€™m not completely sure that for learners who might not be exposed to the actual spoken language, and all itā€™s natural variations until later and/or not very often (as it is often the case with these courses) I think itā€™s worth keeping into consideration a hint here and there that might help storing things the most efficient way and/or avoiding confusion.

For example, knowing a bit how my brain works by now, I was thinking:
if I heard/said again and again ā€œstaiā€ for ā€œyou areā€ from the very beginning of the course, Iā€™d tend to hear it as ā€œTHIS is THE way to say thatā€ and feel very confident about it.
If later in the course, all of a sudden, the Italian voices started using ā€œseiā€ instead, Iā€™d think either ā€œthereā€™s a mistake in the course!ā€ or ā€œam I wrong, then? But why?ā€.
And Iā€™d probably tend to resist the new translation for some time, or even try to look for someone to ask or look for some explanation elsewhere.
Especially now with Automagic where, at the moment, itā€™s basically impossible to just go back and listen to the last sentence again or go back to the beginning of the challenge or a few challenges back to check for comparison.

I believe a simple sentence, similar to the one you mentioned (or at least that idea) ā€œone way to say thisā€¦youā€™ll learn more laterā€ just allows you to learn this now, and then know that in other contexts there will be other ways, and youā€™ll just keep room for them and wonā€™t be surprised when they appear later.

I wouldnā€™t do it for every single expression that has several ways to be translated.
But ā€œessereā€ is one of the very basics and probably one thatā€™s worth extra attention and care!

Of course I remember youā€™re napoletano, but also as a torinese I think itā€™s fine for anyone to go out and say ā€œstaiā€ instead of ā€œseiā€ - over here people came to work at Fiat from all over Italy and actually itā€™s normal to hear all sorts of variations derived from different dialects (Like ā€œscendi il cane!ā€ instead of ā€œfai scendere il caneā€ :laughing).
So thatā€™s not really a worry, Iā€™m sure everyone understands anyway, itā€™s just I canā€™t help but wondering if thereā€™s a sweet spot between too much explanations andā€¦zero, none at all! :smiley:

As for the voiceā€¦ Dante, ha ha :rofl:! O, noi ci si aspetta di sentiā€™ un Dante fiorentino, suvvia! :wink:
(just jokin now - itā€™s ok, if youā€™ve compared the available voices and chose that.
I was just curious.
The French lady turned Italian sounds fine and very clear to me, surprisingly!

Anyway good luck for next steps, and if you like I can write more notes and random reflections, while I go on listening to the courseā€¦ until you have enough of my ramblings! :laughing:

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So - and correct me if Iā€™m wrong - now you have issues with southerners, too? :rofl:

Fear not, also in Italy itā€™s Gog accents that are (in general) less pleasant to my ears! :smiley:

Napoletano accent is one of the nicest sounding. And Iā€™ve got a Beneventano in the house, too, so had the chance to hear accent from his family a lot!

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By the way, I was focusing on the idea of keeping into consideration including a few hints here and there - which I agreed with.

However, while weā€™re here and speaking of random examples, Iā€™m not sure if ā€œcheā€ would build to ā€œnon sono sicuro che possoā€, as in Italian it would normally be ā€œnon sono sicuro di poter(e)ā€.
But thereā€™s a lot of less common and/or more complex indirect sentences, which might include that or quite a few other tenses even!

So in this case it might be tricky to find the right introduction, as thereā€™s probably even more variations I canā€™t think of building up from that ā€œcheā€ā€¦ and maybe just better leave it just as it is.

But I donā€™t know, itā€™s just reflections, itā€™s not easy to find just the right balance, with languages that often donā€™t really build sentences the same way I guess !

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I agree that introducing a few key words in a simple way could be helpful.

Building on othersā€™ comments, I noticed that ā€˜cheā€™ is used to mean ā€˜thatā€™ in the sentence ā€˜I want that = voglio che.ā€™ From my understanding of how the Welsh course is structured, this will likely be used later to construct longer sentences. However, for someone with no prior knowledge of the language, this might be confusing if they are trying to say ā€˜I want that (thing).ā€™

That being said, Iā€™ve only completed the free portion of the course up to the orange belt level. The issues seem to be very minor and I can see the overall value of the course and it was enough to convince me to subscribe.

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