I’m nearing the end of level 1 of SSiW and am confused about bod in the middle of a sentence. For example: ‘it’s important to remember that I’ll see you there’ is given as mae’n bwysig cofio y (?) wela i chdi yno, but ‘some people think that it’s important’ is mae rhai pobl yn meddwl vod o’n bwysig. How do you know when to use ‘vod’ as ‘that’? Any help would be gratefully received, thank you.
That is a good question…
If the second half of the sentence would normally use the present tense (eg if it was a sentence on its own) then ‘bod’ (or fod) is used which does the job of both ‘that’ and providing the tense.
If the second half of the sentence uses another tense eg the future tense or conditional tense - then ‘y’ or ‘yr’ is usually used instead, as a straight translation of the English word ‘that’ (which has no tense implications).
Aha. That’s really helpful, thank you Rich.
It depends on the person you are using ‘bod’ with. If it is with ‘o/e’ (ie he) then you use ‘fod’ instead of ‘bod’, because ‘b’ takes a soft mutation to be ‘f’. Incidentally there is no letter ‘v’ in Welsh but ‘f’ sounds like ‘v’, and ‘ff’ sounds like ‘f’. I know this because I also take Welsh lessons. However the SSIW way of learning is like that of a child. You hear things and repeat them often enough that you just know what to say. This will not help you to write fully in Welsh however, if this is what you want to learn to do. I prefer ton use SSIW as a tool to greater fluency while also taking formal lessons. It is personal choice. Just keep practising and it will come is all I can advise.
Thanks very much indeed, Susan, that’s helpful. I do know there’s no ‘v’ in Welsh, I just seem to consistently mistype v for f. Initially I’d like to be able to speak Welsh but at some point will also need to be able to write it so will look at alternative learning methods. I’ve also been reading books written for learners to get a feel for the written language and to help increase my vocabulary. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hi Karen, I learned how to write in English, largely by reading a lot. So, in my opinion you are laying the best foundations by reading many and various texts. Make sure however that they are written in the same type of Welsh as you are learning ie. North or South etc. If you want a book to tell you about the intricacies of grammar in a readable way, I suggest getting a copy of ‘Y Cyfeiriadur’ by Tony Welsh, who was himself an adult Welsh learner who became fluent. It is £7.99 from LULU publishers online. Plus postage. My husband loves it. I dip in now and again.
Thanks very much for the encouragement and for the recommendation Would that be Tony Ellis…? That’s what seems to be coming up in searches. I’ll have another look…
PS I have reference books by Gareth King and find them very helpful (basic and intermediate Welsh)
On the subject of Bod, sometimes bo’fi sounds like ‘bo’thee’ and other times more like ‘bo’vee.’ I assume the latter is correct?
Yes, it’ll be a ‘vee’. I find that the f and dd sounds are often very similar in the challenges.
I’m really confused. If bod is used with the present + imperfect tenses (in textbook), what would be the correct sentences here please? If the second half is the determiner, it’s the perfect tense so ???
Wyt ti’n meddwl fy mod i wedi pasio’r prawf?
Wyt ti’n meddwl dw i wedi pasio’r prawf?
Dw i wedi clywed … y capten wedi torri ei goes.
Dw i wedi clywed bod y capten wedi torri ei goes.
(edit - sorry I’m multi-tasking badly)…
…let me answer exactly what you are asking
This is correct
The first option is the more correct although people would understand you with the second option!
English likes to drop the ‘that’ - Welsh doesn’t like dropping the ‘that’ s which are ‘bod’ based - the 'y’s do tend to be dropped in speech however.
Thanks, Rich. So is it that ….
If the first half of the sentence uses the present or imperfect tense, use the BOD sequence, if not, don’t.
Any chance you could give me some examples please with present and imperfect tenses, if it isn’t too much trouble.
This second one is correct - again Welsh likes to hang on to ‘that’ s which turn into ‘bod’ even though English drops them completely…
…actually it’s sentences in the second half that standalone, would start as present tense bod (eg dw i) or was tense bod ( e.g. O’n i) using either yn or wedi. (I think of it from the Welsh construct point of view).
O’n i’n meddwl (eich) bod chi’n gadael
I thought you were leaving
Clywais i eich bod chi wedi mynd
I heard that you had gone
Your two options from above were great.
Hopefully that makes sense
Ps sorry for broadening the answer - it is always difficult to know whether to answer the specific question on the forum - the answer is more immediate - but they don’t read ‘totally correctly’ when you look back because there is a broader element which hasn’t been completely addressed. This is a good example of that (looking back)
Thanks for broadening the answer, much appreciated.
I’m getting closer, thanks.
Clywais i eich bod chi ….
Short form past tense. So the textbook is incorrect or not telling the whole picture yet when it states use BOD with present + imperfect?
…I think it could only be referring to the tense which follows ‘that’/ bod - and not the start of the sentence preceding it?
Thanks for all your help, Rich; much appreciated.