Why Gorffennaf?

Obviously… - I was thinking in Welsh rather than English… Mawrth, Mercher etc…

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Hmmm …

Mawrth as March and Tuesday (dydd Mawrth)

Explanation please? Because this looks interesting in deed. Why the same just that by days you add dydd infront of it.

Oh, and … merch is a girl and Dydd Mercher is Wednesday. How that come?

I think that “mercher” is Mercur, the planet next to the sun.

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Ohh, let’s spread s story … so merch is the daughter of Mercur …- hehe

(I know it’s not true, just I like to put some imagination into sirious things. :slight_smile: )

(dydd) Mercher is a borrowing from Latin for Mercury, merch as in girl comes from Celtic *merka- meaning daughter.

You see?! I was actually right. :slight_smile:

Oh, I love this more and more …

What about Mawrth?

and yes March as a month was also dedicated to Mars as a God

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My imagination stops here (breefly) :slight_smile:

And now you have reminded me that “March” is “Mars” in French, Swedish, and Norwegian…
…(any others?). (However, It’s Marts in Danish, and März in German).

Marec in Slovene …
Old Slovene name for Marec (March or Mis Mawrth) is Sušec. Sušec means this month the soil is dry and “drinks” water from the snow which melts and when drying as there is not much rain, it prepares itself for growing and riping afterwards.

“Suša” in Slovene is the state of nature when there’s no or really little water.

The most know saying for March in Slovenia is: “The wines are crying and then they ripe, who wants to drink, that one should sweat.” (Trte se jokajo, potlej rodé, k’teri pit hočejo, naj se poté.).

Well, yes, every month has it’s saying too and not only one but more of them, which are related to happenings in the nature in that time, being it weather, growth of the trees, wines or something else.

Is there something similar in Wales, something like every month would have its saying?

Sorry, not Welsh, and not even really what you were asking about, but it’s a lovely song
(my wife and I used to sing this in a madrigal group…maybe we weren’t quite as good as this recording though… :slight_smile:

Artist: The Douglas Frank Chorale
Composer: Thomas Morley (c.1557-1602)

April is in my Mistress’ face,
And July in her eyes hath place.
Within her bosom is September,
But in her heart, a cold December.

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Thanks for that. I wasn’t up on my Welsh for the days of the week and didn’t think of that. I just wanted to indicate where the English terms came from.

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Wow! Interest bloomed while I was off line!! I was comparing days in French (Latin), English (Germanic/Norse) and Cymraeg. I actually have a theory that ‘market’ comes from Dydd Mercher (from Mercury) being the most common day for markets (marchnadau) to take place. It seems to be that or war-horse sales!!!
I do realise that Diana was goddess of the moon and there were a couple of Greek goddesses of the moon, but I think the Germanic tribes saw the moon as male. Does Monday then count? It seems places outside or peripheral to the Roman empire may have named days for their own deities, but picked ones with similar associations - Thor/Jove(Jupiter), Tiw/Mars. But it falls down, because Mercury is noway as important as Odin, who is probably more like Jupiter/Jove!
Clearly Saturday is Saturn, but interestingly Britain, including Wales, has kept the Latin pre-Christian Saturn and Sol, whereas in France they have Samedi and Dimanche, which I think come from Sabbath and Lord’s day!!??

Mercury was originally the god of tradesmen, so Dydd Mercher is actually named indirectly from market, not the other way round.

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Oh diolch yn fawr!! I’ve had that feeling for years, thought I’d heard it, but couldn’t pin it down!! It is lovely to understand the ‘why’ of it at last!! Well, except to wonder why the traders chose Mercury!! Surely not slippery and light fingered like the metal??!! :grin:

Possibly not relevant, but in modern German, the word for moon is grammatically masculine (“der Mond”). On which subject, I can’t resist posting a link to this sweet little song from Die Prinzen (who were all formerly members of the famous Tomanerchor in Leipzig)

The lyrics for anyone into German:

http://www.songtexte.com/songtext/puhdys/mann-im-mond-3ce4567.html

Accompanied version:

On the original subject - yesterday, in the Weather Forecast for Scotland, at the end, the chap pointed to his map, which showed a deep blue disc covering Scotland, with paler edges and white wind arrows circling it. “For Saturday,” he said, “I’m afraid that looks positively autumnal!”
Yn Wir, mae gorffen haf yn dod!
Mind, I’d still prefer our ancestors, if they really wanted to honour the deified Caesar Augustus, to have slotted him in between Hydref and Tachwedd

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If I remember correctly, one (early?) form of the months in Manx was in four groups of three months, called “start of”, “middle” and “end of” Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter respectively, with “end of Summer” being July.

If true, that would back up an early twelve month system with Summer ending in July.

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JANUARY. Mee s’jerree yn-gheurey. The end of the winter month.
FEBRUARY. Yn-chied vee jeh’n arragh.The first of spring, or vernal quarter.
MARCH. Mee-veanagh yn arree; also called yn-mart. The middle of Spring month.
APRIL. Mee s’jerree yn arree; also, Yn Avril. The end of Spring month.
MAY. Yn Baaltin; or, Yn-chied vee jeh’n tourey. The Beltein ; or, The first month of Summer.
JUNE. Mee-veanagh yn touree. The middle month of Summer.
JULY. Mee s’jerree yn touree. The end of Summer month.
AUGUST. Yn-chied-vee jeh’n ouyr. The first month of harvest.
SEPTEMBER. Mee-veanagh yn-ouyr. The middle month of harvest.
OCTOBER. Mee s’jerree yn ouyr. The end of the harvest month.
NOVEMBER. Yn-chied vee jeh’n gheurey. The first of the. Winter month or, Yn Tauin, or Sauin, Hollantide month.
DECEMBER. Mee-meanagh yn-gheurey. The middle of the Winter month.

From https://aheronsview.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/months-of-year-in-gaelic-manx.html - I’m assuming this is a reliable source.

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Diolch yn fawr iawn!