What am I hearing?

Welsh General / Questions
#21

You know how sometimes you’re not ready to learn a thing and then randomly later it makes sense? I’m sure mae rhaid (noun) arna i came up somewhere in cwrs 2 but at the time I didn’t get it and then recently I’ve been thinking “wait you can’t say there is a need for me to (noun)” and suddenly the arna i pattern makes perfect sense …bless this post :smiley:

#22

I am going to borrow this thread - on 35 Diwrnod, they repeatedly used a word for hiding that sounded phonetically to me like kwarthoh.

I learned from the Ti fi a Cyw Twitter feed that cuddio is to hide or hiding, but this doesn’t sound like the same word (unless it’s an accent thing).

So, what am I hearing?

Diolch o flaen llaw,

Joanie

#23

Joanie, I’ve seen a word in the subtitles on Pobol y Cwm that means hiding, cwato. I wonder if it is the word you are after. It’s not in my dictionary, but they use it quite a lot - being a soap opera there is always someone with something to hide!

#24

(I forgot about this thread and made a new one for my question, so I’ll try and delete my other post.)

What am I hearing for December Rhagfyr in the Southern course? Can’t tell if it’s rag-veer or rag-verr.

#25

Carole: I’ve seen a word in the subtitles on Pobol y Cwm that means hiding, cwato

Thanks! I bet that’s it. I thought I might have heard it on Pobol before, but wasn’t sure.

#26

*Carole asked:*What am I hearing for December Rhagfyr in the Southern course? Can’t tell if it’s rag-veer or rag-verr.

It’s more like “vir”, the same vowel sound as in lid or bin to be strict bit a lot of vowel sounds are very movable from what I can hear. :wink:

#27

Rhagfyr

And the letter rh sounds like “hrr” - a rolled “r” with the aitch sound in front of it.

Hwyl,

Stu

#28

Carole asked: “What am I hearing for December Rhagfyr in the Southern course? Can’t tell if it’s rag-veer or rag-verr.”

Geraint replied “It’s more like “vir”, the same vowel sound as in lid or bin to be strict bit a lot of vowel sounds are very movable from what I can hear. ;-)”

Just wanted to add that often in the north especially further west, ‘y’ will often sound like the Welsh ‘u’ [‘uh’ or ‘ugh’].

For example ‘Rhagfyr’ will sound like ‘RhagfUhr’ rather than the southern ‘ee’ sound - ‘RhagfEEr’.

In the north ‘pry’ (for fly or bug) will sound like ‘pru’ [prUh] rather than the southern ‘prEE’. ‘ty’ (house) up north would sound like ‘tu’ [tUh] and in the south sound more like ‘tEE’. In the north ‘polyn’ (pole) would sound like ‘polun’ and so on…

I’ve often described the Northerners use of the ‘u’ sound to be rather cave man like. If you want to mimic a proper Northern Pen Llyn or Caernarfon accent, beginning by exaggerating the ‘uh’ or ‘ugh’ sounds in caveman fashion would be a good starting point. :wink:

Northern speech is often slower, lower pitched and very phonetic.

Sorry, seems I’ve gone off on a tangent!

1 Like
#29

Diolch Catrin. That’s interesting. When I get to the end of Course 3 South, I’m definitely going to have to take on some Northern lessons to begin to get a grip on these differences. Because, if I heard ‘tUh’, I never would have thought it was 'tŷ '. I just would have assumed it was a word or contraction I didn’t know! Lots more to look forward to! :slight_smile:

#30

*Catrin fibbed:*Northern speech is often slower

Could you try telling that to the guy on the boat to Ynys Enlli please?

#31

Catrin Lliar Jones: In the north ‘pry’ (for fly or bug) will sound like ‘pru’ [prUh] rather than the southern ‘prEE’. ‘ty’ (house) up north would sound like ‘tu’ [tUh] and in the south sound more like ‘tEE’. In the north ‘polyn’ (pole) would sound like ‘polun’ and so on…

The south-vs.-north pronunciation differences have tripped me up in the twitter-based course in cynghanedd (Welsh strict-metre poetry forms) that I’m doing. I rhymed something according to my southern ‘ear’ and was told that was a no-no, and that for purposes of cynghanedd, I should follow:
Do rhyme: -ur & -yr
Don’t rhyme: -ir & -ur, -ir & -yr

#32

Catrin Lliar Jones: Northern speech is often slower, lower pitched and very phonetic.

Interesting, although I seem to remember a thread on the old forum, where the consensus seemed to be that northern Welsh was higher pitched.
(Maybe it was only northern-speaking men who came over as higher pitched … .I remembered Arthur on Rownd a Rownd in particular as an example, especially when he got excited / worried. (Though I’ve heard they are a bit of a law unto themselves on Ynys Mon…).

#33

Just saying thanks all for the answers to my question :slight_smile:

#34

In Southern Course 1 Vocab unit Bootcamp2, am I hearing an “i” (to) in some of the sentences about it being a good idea to do something?

I seem to hear “dyw e ddim yn syniad da i yfed gormod” with an i/to in there but “mae’n syniad da mynd mas” without one.

I want to put one in as that feels right …

#35

That’s a really interesting catch, Carole - I wonder which is technically right - they both ‘sound’ right from where I’m sitting, despite contradicting each other…:wink:

If you want to put one in, put it in - nobody will mind…:slight_smile: And in the long run, you’ll end up using whatever you hear other people using most often, without needing to think about it…:slight_smile:

#36

Mike

I think that might have been a misunderstanding based on the use of the term “high Welsh”, but I’m not sure. To me, high and low are ways to describe dialect, or forms of a language, not the pitch they are spoken, as this varies so much. I might be wrong though, and I base that on much experience of being wrong :wink:

Diane -

Much respect to you for writing cynghanedd. I have spent some time studying this, groes, draws, etc. and would love to do it one day, knowing full well the level of language required to attempt it! Do you have a preferred form?

Rob

#37

Bontddu: Much respect to you for writing cynghanedd. I have spent some time studying this, groes, draws, etc. and would love to do it one day, knowing full well the level of language required to attempt it! Do you have a preferred form?

I care most about being able to write an englyn, the four-line, 30-syllable form that’s the commonest short way of expressing yourself – and within that, of the four basic line structures, I find cynghanedd draws the easiest (yes, easier for me than llusg), and sain the hardest, for some reason. The hardest thing of all? Coming up with ‘accented’ words (usually, words of one-syllable, but also a category that includes multi-syllable words with the accent at the end, like mam-gu and paratoi) that have the rhyme and other characteristics I need in a particular situation . . . oh, and make sense!

Carole: I seem to hear “dyw e ddim yn syniad da i yfed gormod” with an i/to in there but “mae’n syniad da mynd mas” without one.

Iestyn explained years & years ago on the old forum that there’s a tendency to include the i when you’re talking about concrete situations and to leave it out when you’re talking abstractly. The second example is a clear ‘abstract’ case . . . but I’d think the first one was, too! :slight_smile:

#38

Diolch Aran a Diane.

#39

On Pobol o Cwm, I’ve been hearing the word…“achan” a lot recently. Is this just the male equivalent of, “bach”, used affectionately? Like…
hiya bach, ti’n iawn?
hiya achan, ti’n iawn?

The word does usually come after someones name.

Thanks

#40

Very common southernism for ‘mate’ - it’s not the male equivalent of bach, because bach isn’t specifically female, but you’re on the right lines, because ‘achan’ is short for ‘bachan’…:slight_smile: