Welsh Story

Welsh General / Questions
#1

Dear Cymraegosiaradists,

This is something I put together just messing about. It is the way I learn languages, like, learning to swim by just jumping in the lake. I copy and modify stuff from the resources I have found, and so far I can’t produce anything like this independently. To be honest, I don’t think I remember how to say my name is Chris yet.

Ah yes, hang on, Chris dw’i. Got it.

Plenty of poetic licence, and surely lots of mistakes. If anybody has the time, please feel free to give me any feedback you feel I would benefit from.

Please be sympathetic, I have been learning Welsh for two days, probably a total of 3 hours study.

Like I said, I have not learned all this much in three hours, I just navigate the resources and find sentences to copy and modify.

If you want the English translation to give you an idea of what I was trying to say, bear with me while I write it :wink:

Few notes *

I included the 'n after the first kath because it is used after the mae hi pronoun, but I have not been able to find if this is correct or not.

I have not encountered any rules regarding articles yet, other than very basic examples of yn, and the word mewn, which seems clear. So by and large, I have just gone ahead without them.

Diolch

Chris

Kath y kath 'n* dod om Menllech ond mae hi’n byw yng Nghaerdydd. Mae hi’n gweithio mewn siop. Mae hi arddunol kath, koch a gwyn. Dyw e ddim yn hoffi gweithio, hoffi dysgu Kazakh. Mae hi’n mynd i byw yn Almaty yn Kazakhstan fory. Mae hi’n eisaiau gweithio mewn ysgol.

Ddoe, gwelodd hi * teigr yn nhref. Teigr Bob ydw’i.

“Bore da, Bob” siaradodd hi.
“Bore da. Sut wyt ti?”
“Ofnadwy!”
“Pam?”
“Fory dw i’n mynd i’r Kazakhstan, ond dw i ddim siarad Kazak.”
“Bûm yn Kazakhstan, dw i’n hoffi Almaty, mae e’n arddunol.”

Kath gofynnodd hi am cwestium…

“Pam buost ti yn Almaty?”
“Canais i yn Almaty Eistedfodd.”
“Beth gwelaist ti?”
“Gwelais i arddunol gwragedd. Merchatais i.”
“Faint gwelaist ti?”
“Miliwn. Dw i’n hoffi Kazakh gwragedd.”
“Ydy nhw’n siarad Cymraeg?”
“Nac ydy, ond maen nhw’n siarad Saesneg.”
“Ofnadwy! Dw i ddim hoffi Saesneg. Mae en anniddorol!”
“Dim problem. Maen nhw’n caru estron yn Kazakhstan. Byddi di’n cael cydwedd.”
“OK, diolch. Hywl fawr!”
“Hywl!”

Kath aeth hi i’r maes glanio. Gwelodd hi Kazakh ceffyl a siarodon nhw Saesneg. Ceffyl da siarad Saesneg. Gorffennon nhw i’r Almaty a siaradon a lot*. Ceffyl siaradodd e, “Tuig, dw i’n ceffyl a yn Kazakhstan maen nhw’n bwyta ceffyl. Dichon byddwyn ni ddim yn gweld ei hunan yn Almaty.”
“Ofnadwy!”

A buodd clau! Kath ddim gwelodd ceffyl. Byth!

Ond ym wyty, pan mae roedd hi’n bwyta Kazakh bwyd, cofiodd hi ei cydwedd, y ceffyl…

Cue Twighlight Zone music …. …. …. ….

Glossary of intended terms (this is what I was hoping to say when I used these words)

Kath y kath = Kath the cat
fy = my
tref (nhref) = town (as in town centre, implied meaning, the way we would say it in English)
ond = but
cydwedd = friend
Merchatais I = I chased the girls
arddunol = beautiful
clau = true
fory = tomorrow
ddoe = yesterday
pam? = why?
Bûm = I was
pan = when (at the time of)
Dichon + Maybe
ei hunan = each other
Dichon byddwyn ni ddim yn gweld ei hunan yn Almaty = Maybe we won’t see each other in Almaty

#2

The whole piece is a bit long for me to do in detail, but here are some bits from your basic list:

Kath y gath (it’s cath, but feminine nouns soft mutate after the definite article)
Cydwedd - I suspect this is archaic. Go for ‘ffrind’ or ‘cyfaill’.
Arddunol - likewise. Go for ‘hardd’.
Clau - likewise (what dictionary are you using?). Go for ‘gwir’.
Dichon - rather literary. In speech, go for ‘efallai’.
ei hunan - incorrect (it means him or herself). Go for ‘ein gilydd’.

:sunny:

2 Likes
#3

Shwmae Chris.
At the risk of sounding slightly pedantic, the letter ‘K’ generally doesn’t exist in Welsh words, or indeed the Welsh alphabet, so the Welsh word for ‘cat’ would be ‘cath’. But being a feminine noun it softens to ‘gath’ after the definite article “y”, as Aran has already mentioned.
The letter K does however still appear in proper names like ‘Kath’ and ‘Kazakhstan’ though.
Apart from that, and what Aran has already picked up on, this is pretty good for the equivalent of 3 hours learning!

Of course, reading, writing and understanding written Welsh and grammar is only half the battle. Speaking Welsh is quite another, and I’m sure you’re already aware that many of the letters in the Welsh alphabet are pronounced rather differently from the English. Then there’s the digraphs and diphthongs as well, the mutations to certain letters in certain circumstances… all the really good gritty stuff!
At SSiW, we tackle the speaking, listening and understanding spoken Welsh element first, before tackling the written stuff. Much like when a child learns to speak first, then is possibly introduced to letters and written words before starting school, then at school learns to read and write properly.

Of course, different people use different methods to learn which suits them. I started learning Welsh the same way as you have, 10 years ago now. I could write it, read it and partially understand it, but couldn’t speak it properly at all, and didn’t even try in the fear of sounding stupid! Then just over 3 years ago I discovered SSiW and followed the entire course. I learned so much more from SSiW so quickly, and was also speaking Welsh in a very short time, I couldn’t believe I spent the previous 7 years learning the hard way!!!
Already knowing how to write Welsh beforehand did have its benefits though, but trying to distinguish the Welsh pronounciation from the English took some getting used to - which is why we generally discourage writing the Welsh or using the course guides too early into the course, so that the Welsh which is produced vocally is as natural sounding as you would hear it spoken from a first-language Welsh speaker.

Sorry for the long-winded reply, but I am hoping that there is something you will be able to take from this that will help you learn this beautiful language a lot easier than the many other languages you’ve impressively learned in the past. In any case, I hope you will enjoy learning Welsh.
Last but not least - croeso i’r fforwm!
Gav

9 Likes
#4

Like many people using SSiW, I was using written sources from the off. Stuff written by Gareth King, Heini Gruffudd and many others.
A good source which tells you how the a Welsh alphabet is used is useful from when you start learning - it means you can use many other sources of learning, which is always good!

The strength of SSiW, is, in my opinion, the way it can fit into any system of learning, whether along with written sources or not, and be a marvellous source along side them.

Most people I know in Wales do SSiW alongside written courses from (at least!) the beginning, and it really does not seem to be a disadvantage. Quite the other way, I would say. As I have said before, the fact that people in Wales have a grasp of the alphabet is an advantage, not a disadvantage.

The course guides are certainly not the best way to learn Welsh spelling, (they are not meant to be!) but there are many other courses and books which do that.

So whatever is best for you. I certainly wouldn’t say that everyone doing SSiW does not think that learning the alphabet and using written sources from the start is a disadvantage. It depends on you, where you are from, your learning preferences.

But it is always a tremendous advantage to use SSiW, however else you are learning! And only doing it as a course means you will be missing out on other things.

To me, that is a great compliment to it, not somehow an insult.

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#5

Hi. Diolch. I used an online translator. All the alternative words you suggested were there but I had no way of knowing which was best so I used the first one each time.

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#6

Of course, but I am fluent in many languages and always just go for it from the off, mess up, repeat, mess up again. I don’t start following courses until it is time to tidy up wholesale, but for me, that means having a lot to tidy.

#7

Sounds to me like a good plan.

1 Like
#8

Sure, I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet :smiley: and hope we sound better than the male voice choirs :smiley:

#9

I normally do all this story stuff for a few weeks and then find somebody to practise with, won’t be so easy in Kaz as I have not heard of Welsh speakers yet. But once I find one it will only take a few weeks to get the speaking nailed too, albeit only to socially conversational. I don’t think professional ability is quite on my agenda yet :frowning:

#10

Sounds very George Borrowish! (I mean that as a compliment! :blush:)

Until then, just a note about the first sentence.
“Mae Kath y gath yn dod o Benllech.”
It’s “Mae (X) yn dod” in the third person, so “Mae hi’n dod”, “Mae Kath yn dod” etc.
And “o” causes a soft mutation- a “Penllech” to “Benllech” change.

2 Likes
#11

Is that Kazakhstan? Have you seen the petition at thread ‘Saving S4C’?
Have you seen any S4C? @tatjana could help you get it on-line if you are in Kazakhstan

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#12

Geiriadur Yr Academi is a very good English to Welsh dictionary, with a very good reputation. Its online version is at

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#13

S4C international can be found here: http://www.s4c.cymru/en/international/

2 Likes
#14

Hi, not seen any petition, no, let me know.

#15

Thanks, will check it out. I have a Collin’s gem on the way. I learned Russian and Italian from a Collin’s gem, love them :smiley: Off the top of my head that’s something like Dw i’n caru hwnna.

#16

I got the mutation wrong, it was from memory, and I was thinking of ym Menllech.

Seems it should be Fenllech, can anybody put me right on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j-1plHk8E8

#17

Ah, if you meant the place called “Benllech”, it would indeed be “o Fenllech”.
I thought you meant the place called “Penllech”.

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#18

Petition for saving S4C is here : Non-residents of Wales ask for S4C funding to be maintained

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#19

Spent many a happy family holiday in Anglesey when I was a kid, Benllech was always my favourite. Apart from Puffin Island.

#20

Signed.

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