Trouble Saying Dd + R in Diddorol

I’ve gotten to a point in the Level 1 Challenges where “diddorol/ddiddorol” is used, and I’m having a very hard time making the word sound like more than gobbledegook. Now that I’ve had it come up in a few of the Challenges I have no problem remembering the word, just trouble saying it. Every time I get to the “ddor” part in the middle it’s like I have marbles in my mouth and stumble all over the word. Was not expecting to have so much trouble with it since I can say “dd” and “r” just fine in other words, and especially after having mastered the tongue-twisting “Na fyddaf, fydda’i ddim yn…”.

Any suggestions? Should I just keep saying it over and over again until I get it right?

So far as continuing the Challenges is concerned, I’ve accepted that for the time being I can’t say it correctly, and just continue on with the sentences as if I did. :smile:

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You’ll get used to it. If you think that’s bad, in the old course it took me ages before I could say “fydda i ddim yn” or “fyddi di ddim yn”…


You might try splitting it up into “didd” and “orol”, and just say them one after another for a few times (or a few dozen times), and then gradually reduce the time gap in between them until you are just running one into another.

(There are some combinations of letters that I find difficult to say, although that word doesn’t happen to be one of them).


To add to Mike’s response, if it helps you more, you could just visualise how the word would be spelt phonetically using English spelling until it has stuck firmly into your mind. So it could look something like
“div-OR-rol”, or “viv-OR-rol” for the softened word (the capital letters denoting the emphasis in the word).

dd is ‘th’ as in these. th is th as in thing! f is v. ff is f.
I would use Mike’s method. It works for me with anything I find hard to say in any language!! It works for Llanfairpg if I have it written in front of me, but I can never remember it all!! I lose the middle and go on to Llantisiliogogogoch! As it is a sort of joke anyway, I don’t feel bad about it! I just wish people wouldn’t say, “Oh, you’re Welsh. Can you say that long name?”!!!


I just want to clarify that I was aware of this!
I used “v” as a means of making it easier to remember how to say the word without trying to be confusing. The true pronounciation can be worked on over time.
@henddraig 's explanation is the correct pronounciation of “dd”, but in conversational speech you will rarely hear a difference (unless you look for it!).


I wasn’t confused by what you wrote. :smile: I know how to say the letters too - it’s just this particular combination that’s a mouthful.

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I’d say don’t worry about it.

There are times when I get this, defnyddio (to use) was my worst one.
I used to go “mumble mumble muh” when I had to use it in the lessons and then one day it just clicked.


What’s happening here is just that the combination isn’t one you’d use in English, so some of the huge number of tiny variations in muscle control in your mouth and tongue are complaining that they’re not ‘meant’ to move like this…

But keep on trying to do it, and eventually they’ll give in and accept that they can actually cope with it, and you’ll be fine… :sunny:


Now this is the sort of thing I find difficult to say:

llysysydd (noun masculine) (llysysyddion)

Either the singular or plural. I think it’s the combination of the two “s” sounds after the “ll”, plus the uncertainty of three “y” sounds in three successive syllables. Also, I’m not sure if I would have come up with the pronunciation given here (singular only):
But even with that help, I still find it difficult.

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What a fantastic dictionary site - thanks @mikeellwood :smiley:

I’m too mean to risk having to subscribe to the dictionary for one word, is that 1st & 2nd ‘y’ ‘English u’, last ‘y’ ‘ee’???

You only have to register & login. No payment is involved. It’s a great resource!
(However, the pronunciation is only given for the singular version of the word).

The first “y” is given as English sound “ee” which surprised me. But register and try for yourself.
I’m sure there will be other words you might want to look up later.
(and if they ever ask for money, you can always say no. They have never asked me and I’ve been using it for ages).

That’s absolutely brilliant!! Diolch yn fawr iawn, not just from me, but from everyone else on the forum that this helps!!!
p.s. By the way, diddorol is one of my favourite words in Cymraeg!! It seems to sound more interesting than ‘interesting’ does!!
Mr. Spock {my favourite Vulcan) always said 'fascinating. In Cymraeg, he’d be happy with ‘dddorol’!!!


I quite like it too. :slight_smile: Another favourite is “cymharu”. “Come, Harry!”? Who is this Harry they keep calling? Time he got a move on. First heard on bootcamp I think, and I only had the vaguest idea what it meant, although the fog gradually lifted over a period of days (as it seemed to come up a few times). Then the other day I heard “cymhariaeth” on the radio and wondered: "ah, does that mean “comparison”? And yes it does. Things don’t always work out like that, but it’s nice when they do.

But in that area of the dictionary, another tongue-twister for me would be “cynhyrchu” which I came across somewhere recently. (“to bring forth”, “to yield”, “to produce”, apparently).
That “yrchu” combination is a little tricky to say, at least for me!


Hi @Sarah_25

The advice I give students having a hard time with the ‘r’ between two vowels is to remember that the ‘r’ is not meant to be stressed or elongated here. Say the ‘r’ as quickly as you possibly can. This should stop you from pausing before you say ‘r’. It’s common to hear things like 'diddo -oorrrrrrol

It should be ‘diddorol’. didd - or -ol with that ‘r’ only being hinted at, almost.

Speed up the word, is what I suggest! Emphasise your vowels instead.

Hope this works. It applies to any word that has an ‘r’ mid-word, sandwiched between vowels.


Diolch yn fawr iawn, @Mererid! That worked! :smiley:


@Sarah_25, I notice the flag in your profile pic - are you by any chance American? If so, it’ll probably help to think of the R in “diddorol” as being like the reduced T sound between vowels in (most?) American accents - e.g. the T sound in “water”. Phonetically speaking, that’s pretty much exactly the same sound as a short Welsh R. :slight_smile:

I am American, ha. :slight_smile: The way I pronounce “water” (WAH-der), the “T” sound is definitely like a “D”, not an “R”…?

Hehe … I like “diddorol” too. I don’t know why, but it’s easy for me to say, maybe the easiest one of that “dd” words. I even played with it when speaking with @aran that time. He asked: “Sut ewt ti?” and I deliberately answered “Dwi’n emmm … diddorol.” That was not a mistake but deliberate sentence which described my day. That day really was diddorol the whole way through despite now, except that chat with Aran I actually can’t remember why exactly it was so.

So long live “diddorol”! - haha :slight_smile:

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