Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

I think this is right. I have never seen it with an ‘a’!! But I may easily be wrong! (I presume your extra ‘f’ in ‘ffferm’ was a typo!).

Either is fine. :relaxed:

2 Likes

Ystyron gwahanol - fedra i…? yn meddwl can I… = am I able…?; ga i…? yn meddwl can I…? = do I have permission?

Ond…wedi dweud hynny…mae rhai pobol yn cymysgu’r ddau beth bynnag. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Sorry! I must stop answering in ignorance!! I suppose ‘ffarm’ isn’t a new version!? :wink:

1 Like

diolch!!

1 Like

For God’s sake don’t do that! If no one answered in ignorance, no questions would get answered!

At a guess I would say it probably is later. With a guess based on what little information I have (see, out of ignorance!) I would think “fferm” comes from the French (at least as early as, apparently, if not a little earlier in this meaning than it entered English, but I may well be wrong), whilst “Ffarm” obviously comes from the English- though ultimately of course, from exactly the same French source. No idea when. Both used though.

1 Like

Diolch! I was trying to justify my ignorance by suggesting that ‘ffarm’ came in ‘after my time’!! (Like ‘teledu’ instead of ‘teleweli’!! :smile:

2 Likes

Curiously, both fferm and ffarm are in my ‘big dictionary’ (Y Geiriadur Mawr) where fferm has several other now-archaic meainings (food, toll, rent, etc.). In the same dictionary both ffermio and ffarmio are given for the verb form, though ffermio simply redirects to ffarmio. Odd.

2 Likes

Well, “fferm” looks to be from the French “ferme”, which had the original meaning of fixed rent, etc - the same derivation and route that “farm” took in English, by the looks of it. “Farm” was probably taken from the English when those archaic meanings had left the English word, as it were. (And, of course, had by then would also presumably have left the Welsh word “fferm”.)

1 Like

:smile:

This may be a silly question, but i’ve been catching up on some of the latest Level 2 Southern lessons and I’m having trouble placing the words for ‘I would like’ and ‘I would try’. It sounds like Iestyn and Cat are saying ‘Hoffen i’ and ‘trien i’, where I would have expected ‘hoffwn i’ and ‘triwn i’. Sorry I haven’t got a particular place in a particular lesson - I just keep noticing it. Please could somebody clarify? Many thanks!

Yup, that’s just an accent/dialect kind of thing - if you default to saying ‘hoffwn’ and ‘triwn’ you’ll be fine :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Diolch Owain a pawb. Makes sense.

Owain - do you have a book you’d recommend that looks at the history of the Welsh language? It seems you know a lot on the subject and I’d love to know more.

1 Like

haha! I was trying to introduce the triple fff into Cymraeg :wink:

1 Like

Quick question–Some time ago, I completed the old Course 1 (Southern). Since, I’ve been using other methods (e.g. a weekly conversation group organized elsewhere) to practice my Welsh, which I’ve certainly maintained and probably augmented somewhat. I’m going to Wales later this summer and wanting to supplement what I’ve been doing since complete the old Course 1 and thinking of picking up with SSiW again. Where should I begin? Level 1? Level 2?

Keep trying. You’ll probably get away with it one day. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Dw i ddim Owain, but one book that comes to mind is “Welsh Roots and Branches”. Unfortunately it’s out of print, and if you see it for sale anywhere, it’s usually at a silly price.

I’m sure there ought to be more books like that (possibly only in Welsh though).

Sounds like Level 1 would be a good place to start. Then do as much Level 2 as is currently available for the southern course (if it’s not already complete).

There is enough new stuff (or a new approach) that makes Level 1 (rather than going straight on to Level 2) worth doing, even though you finished Course 1. I think you won’t regret doing Level 1.

2 Likes

That’s more about the construction of modern Welsh than the history of Welsh, isn’t it? I haven’t read it, you would know more than me.

Unfortunately there aren’t any readily available books on the history of Welsh - that I know of!

When I say the best and most complete one I know of is “an Elementary Welsh Grammar” by John Morris Jones published in 1926 (actually superior to his “Welsh Grammar Historical and Comparative” published in 1913), you might see what we are up against! But apart from that, it’s looking through dictionaries like the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru, or an etymological dictionary of old Welsh published on obscure sites, any passing books you can come across randomly from second hand stores or libraries in order to get bits of information from them. There are loads of books out there written in English, but most of them cover small areas rather than the whole language. It’s a matter of reading a lot of books rather than one big one, unfortunately.

Sorry I can’t be of more help!

2 Likes

No book. But…er…as far as we know, when humans came back north across the land bridge following game as the ice retreated, well, they were talking something and carried on doing so until the second Roam invasion actually succeeded. After that, gradually, Latin influence increased, to be replaced by the invaders who rushed in when the Legions withdrew!! I am not totally sure when yr hen iaith started to be written down, but until then, the history has to depend on an awful lot of guesswork, surely?
p.s. To @llex I agree that Level 1 is the place to start. The method is very different and becomes challenging quickly. Stick with it! I think it is a brilliant way to learn, just demanding!!

2 Likes

I’d recommend starting with the Levels… :slight_smile: