No. This is not what I think. It was simple question as I know in whole conversation I ever had live with someone practically nothing was produced. The question was based on knowing myself and how much I’ve produced during conversation, which was, if I’m honest toward all of us, quite some time ago and it’s quite possible today it would be (probably, I’m not sure) much better.
Mae’n drwg da fi. I didn’t want to insult or anger you or doubt your experiences. And i also didn’t want this would seam as I disrespect you. No, I didn’t want this and it surely wasn’t meant tthis way to be.
Yes, but 5 %? Isn’t it a bit too little?
7 % if I remember correctly but surely less then 10. The lessons from 17 to 20 were all under 10 % except 1, Lesson 18 I think (it was exactly 10 %).
I’m sorry once again. Obviously I can’t express myself properly even in English. And … I obviously do things wrong all the time.
Yes, but my knowledge of your ability isn’t based on listening to you trying to use your Welsh in a spoken situation. I can guarantee you the main problem with that is (by your own admission) you haven’t used Welsh in a Welsh only situation - you’ve gone back to English whenever you’ve got stuck.
A few hours of not being allowed to go back to English (or Slovene!) would make a huge difference in showing you what you can communicate when you have no choice.
I’m not angry or insulted, Tatjana - I’m just not going to let you get away with saying ‘Oh, he’s too kind, but he doesn’t know anything about my Welsh’ - because I do
Yes, 5% is low enough to make me think that you might want to revisit that lesson at some point in the future. But also, if 18 was a little higher, that is very encouraging. Especially since we know that a lot of these issues are going to be possessives/mutations - in other words, if you’re producing a lot of stuff correctly as part of the phrases, but making mistakes on the details, that’s fine.
When you get to 25, let me know your %s for 21 to 25, and then we’ll discuss the next steps for you.
It is very, very clear, however, that the learning process is working for you, however much you don’t want to believe it!
No, no, no … that was never my intention. It was simple curious question to which you just gave me the answer. I was literally wondering how can you possibly know. I know, your experiences give you a way to recognize the abilities of one even if that one (in this case me) doesn’t see them, but what else? . And I simply take your answer to my question as it was written in those two of your replies. That’s it.
Thank you.
Mainly yes. When sentence comes to mutation or possesive thingy I get stuck. However I really started to mix tenses but that’s probably because I’m more concentrated on how I’ll maybe finally say those tough things right and am not even concentrated on a tense itself. So I many times even don’t know at the end of English sentence what tense was actually used but when I hear Welsh reply I only am aware I’ve “heard” it all wrong (or better said, didn’t hear it at all).
When I first read this it felt a bit scarry … 21 to 25 already?
One way or another surely does becuase if it wouldn’t I surely wouldn’t be able to say anything at all neither write anything down. I just have to be that honest.
So, let’s see what the future (this week) brings then.
I’m actually not sure what style of writing should I go with. Should I just pure stats here nad vanish, or should i put something more into it. If I put only stats then one might get into slumber before he/she starts to read, if I put something more into it it’ll be all moaning and “praising” my failure … So let’s go with ordinary annoying “novel” style then …
This week I’ve gone through Lessons 21 - 25 of Course 2. The most percentage I’ve reached was 25 % and the least was 8 %. So, as you see I never was beyind 25 % however I was not below 8 % aswell despite I’ve thought Lesson 25 would be 0 %. What actually saved my percentage were short intro structures to “new” mutations and articles. All actual sentences were not said even once. I forgot even structures (half sentences) which I should know already.
So, the wrap up of this week would be ----------------- tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ---------------- 14 % alltogether
SUCCESS! Isn’t it? I have to admit despite all difficulties I didn’t expect so low averall percentage.
As said, the highest percentage was 25 % In lesson 21 thanks to short introduction structures to mutations. When comming to use them in sentences there was nothing produced (almost) at all. And I was at the lowest of 8 % two times, in Lesson 23 and 24. Corresponding to percentage there were the most responses correct 42 in Lesson 21 and the least 9 in Lesson 23 and 24.
Alltogether there were 637 things to say and I said 550 of them wrong or didn’t say them at all and only 87 were said right. So, as I’ve said already the overall percentage is 14 % (un)success. What actually saved to be over 10 % in lesson 25 was also fact that there was less things introduced - 108 (in other Lessons average of 120).
Wrap up of the whole course 2 would be 37 %
Beginning with almost magnificent 53 % in first set of 7 lessons, the success rate slowly dropped down to 51 % in second set of 7 lessons and then there came the rapid drop in last two sets (one of 7 and one of 5 lessons - 21 and 14 %.
There were alltogether 3411 structures to be said and I said them 2162 wrong. As said, alltogether success rate it is 37 % thanks to (now I see clearly) quite successful first two sets of lessons.
Lesson 21 25 % (Edit made later as I obviously thought too fast and typed even faster mistakenly writing it was 53 %)
Lesson 25 12 %
If I mark the whole learning process so far through those two courses measuring the success rate it would be 64 %
Actually alltogether not even so bad anyway but most of because of good Course 1 which was (wanting or not this is neccessary to admit) repeated for the 4th time already .
From 7406 structures to be said in both lessons I’ve said them 4744 correct and 2662 wrong.
Some stats for your curiousity (or maybe not) purpose:
Alltogether you are required 7406 structures to say (+ those I’ve overslept in Course 1 )
The highest number of things to say is 191 in lesson 9 of Course 1
The least what was required from you was in Lesson 0 of Course 2 - you needed to say only 64 things.
Well to conclude this … I’ll take “day off” tomorrow and wait for Aran’s instructions what to do next.
Now start enjoying the vocab lessons for course two.
Hopefully around about November we can have a skype chat and i won’t be surprised if you are correcting my welsh at times. da iawn.
@aran siriously, what should I do next. I had an idea to repeat those lessons which were 10 % or below and maybe even write some things down but I’m not sure if it’d do any good though. Going on Course 3 doesn’t seam to me to be an option, but correct me if I’m wrong.
and I was sirious about that being a bit lost at the moment (if I count out momental “clecs” happyness. )
Hi Tatjana - sorry, brief breakdown in communications - when I said the %s from 21 to 25, I mean for all of them - so for 21, and 22, and 23, and 24, and 25…
But 25% for 21 is very encouraging indeed
So let me have the other numbers, and then we can decide a way forward…
Leave it all for a fortnight. After a fortnight, come back and do 24 and 25 again. Then repeat that the day after - so you do 24 and 25 on (for example) Saturday, and then 24 and 25 on Sunday - NOT 24 twice, and then 25 twice.
And then give me the scores for that
In the meantime, do as many listening exercises as you can manage, but don’t actively try to understand them - just get in the habit of letting them wash over you…
I didn’t intend to learn anything at least for a week as I’m FINALLY (after 9 years) going on vacation next week but since I’ll have phone with listening to anything wouldn’t be hard to do.
UPDATE:
No, I didn’t do “forbidden work” don’t worry. I just want to let you know that I’ve got my “tech beast” called PC this morning but I’ll need some days to establish a bit of “order” here as I have a huge portion of software to install again. Then on my “torturing” of Skype could go on. I’ll do my best not to “waste” all your precious time.
UPDATE
I’m in the middle of re-doing Lesson 24 as instructed right now, but even comming to the quarter of it I see pausing for 2 weeks was not the best idea. … I’m not even sure if I’ll finish this at all. More I dn’t need to say I believe. There’s actually nothing more to say …
EDIT
I did as instructed anyway, but there’s no improvement. The same results as last time I’ve done lesson 24 and 25. Lesson 24 8 % with the same number of correct answers and Lesson 25 also the same 12 % with the same number of correct answers. Interestingly enough correct answers were not the same as previous time - those which were correct last time are almost by the rule wrong this time. And to be more honest - I don’t have even a slidest clue what I’m doing. The feeling is like I’d do both two lessons for the first time. I don’t remeber the words from the last time, neither structures even less mutations. All is blurred in speach, time and space … I can say even today that tomorrow will be no better, maybe per percent but not more …
I must really be hopeless case and I’m giving up upon myself … Now I really wonder how I have learnt all those languages in the past or there’s actually the case that (besides English, Serbo-Croatian and my own - Slovene) I actually didn’t learn them at all. It actually has to be it though.
I’m relying on you keeping going, as you have been progressing faster than me,
remember November and we can skype about whats outside.
I wonder if it’s any use suggesting maybe you try visualizing what you say rather than thinking about the words.
When i think of “ceffyl” (horse) i imagine a picture of a horse i don’t think about the word first.
Tomorrow when you see a tree (coeden), think of what you CAN say about it in welsh.
I guess what i’m trying to say is relate the welsh to images.
“The woman is running” (looks like you trying to catch a bus, not four words).
“Mae’r ddynes yn rhedeg” (think about it now, think about it tomorrow and you will not forget).
Its got to be better than worrying about the % score.
If i could not laugh at my own mistakes i would have given up long ago (yes being slow is frustrating).
There may be a rush of people to disagree with what i have written which is fine (it just might help).
Ahhh … @ramblingjohn … I was more thinking about giving up …
And it’s actually not about percentage and not totally about forgetting wods but rather about not having a clue what I’m doing at all. All those “my”, “to me”, “to you”, “upon you”, … so many words for one single (not even so complicated) sentence.
Well, I’m pushing on without pause button but have a feeling with using it it wouldn’t be much better. It’s like I’d be able to say “a dog” but when comming to “my dog” I don’t know what I’m doing anymore. So many changes for just slightly different situations … In all this mess words are (almost) the slidest problem of all. But yes, the newer they are the less I remember them especially those “as it happens”, all those “looking” structures … Well, it has no use to spread thoughts further. If I once thought I can’t cope with Course 1 then now I think Course 2 is impossible and further on, I don’t feel even a bit capable of moving on to the Course 3.
I never was afraid to talk even if in foreign language but right now I feel really useless and chatting with me on Skype would be only wasting anyones time from my end. …
I understand perfectly clear what you’re trying to tell me but all of a sudden if you wouldn’t translate what you’ve written, I would not understand …
Well, saying something if even wrong is one thing but saying only wrong things even more wrong (what means actually not being able to say them) is another. 8 % really isn’t enough even for the complete beginner in whatever lesson, neither is 12 %.
But yah, let’s say Novemeber is not so near yet so maybe I’ll at least figure out until then what actually I’m doing in those 2 lessons … if I’ll manage to survive until then of course and if there will remain at least a bit of motivation to go on … I’m not sure about that though.
tatjana, You are doing two things very few of the rest of us are doing.
Firstly you are learning Welsh not from your mother tongue. The vast majority of the rest of us have English as a mother tongue.
In addition to that big challenge you are keeping score of yourself, and judging yourself, quite severely I might add, which few of the rest of us doing.
Don’t beat yourself up about it. You spend a lot of time saying what you can’t say. I heard you say say how much you liked coffee and music on your video. Make another one of those videos concentrating on what you can say, not on the sentences that escape you from the course.
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