Short form verbs

I’ve got the short form of the irregular verbs, mynd, dod, cael and gwneud, and also roedd and bydda.

Anyone tell me what the short form of Baswn is. I believe Baswn i would be 'swn i, but can’t work out the rest…
Thanks for any replies.

Baswn (i) is the subjunctive of bod, as such it doesn’t really have a “short form” (or you could also say that it already is a short form). It is usually spoken as “'swn i”, but that doesn’t make “swn i” a short form.

Short form usually means that instead of using a construction with an auxiliary verb (such as bod or gwneud) you conjugate the verb itself:
Long form: Dw i’n mynd -> Short form Af i.

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‘swn i
‘set ti’
‘sai fo/hi, ‘sai x(enw), sai’r plant/teulu ee
‘sen ni
‘sech chi
‘sen nhw
That’s the pattern as far as I understand it. As Hendrick says, when spoken these are the abbreviations

Thanks Jenny. @hendrik, how did Dwi’n mynd get to Af i?

“Dwi’n mynd” is the long form using the verb bod. “Af i” is the short form of the verb mynd.
It’s the present tense equivalent of long and short forms that you’ve come across with past tense e.g. roeddwn i’n mynd (long form with bod) / es i (short form of mynd).

Thanks Siaron. I understand Dwi’n mynd and Af i. I was just wondering how Dwi’n mynd got to Af i. It’s not as if there are some letters left out of Dw i’n mynd to get to Af i. Does that make sense?

Or do I just have to accept that’s how things are?

If you mean how ‘mynd’ gets to ‘af’, it’s just the way it is with mynd - there’s no ‘stem’ to this one!
Indeed, mynd is probably the most irregular of the irregular verbs - not a m/my/myn/mynd in sight!..
Present tense:
Â/Af i
Ei di
Aiff/Eith e/o/hi
Awn ni
Ewch chi
Ân nhw

Past tense:
Es i
Est ti
Aeth e/o/hi
Aethon ni
Aethoch chi
Aethon nhw

Hi Rob - just think of how you’d get, in English, from “go” to “went”. There are probably explanations for both “go/went” and “mynd/af”: but at the end of the day, as you said “That’s how things are”!

Good luck!

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Excellent point Baruch! :smiley:

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Thanks Baruch
Probably best just to accept it as is.

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The way I think of it is that the most commonly-used verbs tend, simply by their use, to get the most mangled over the centuries, just as any over-used tool will become worn and distorted and rough around the edges. So do and go, and get and come and be, because they make up a good proportion of our communication, get the most changed.

Disclaimer - I’m not a linguist, and this could be laughably naive! :slight_smile:

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I noticed yesterday by accident that “Mynd” is thought to come from “Allez”. I’m not sure if that’s anything to do with it.

Also, since “Af I” is being mentioned here, I hope it’s OK if I ask this question here, as it had a mixed response on FB :frowning:

Does anyone here use “A fi” for Ai/Af i? (“I will”, not “And me”).

My colleague uses it and i’m fairly sure that Swansea Singer, Sián Richards does as well, although I’m not 100% sure. I might ask her some time.

A fi and Af i can sound identical, so even if someone did say a fi to me meaning I will, I still hear af i.

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Because of that possible ambiguity, I occasionally hear the emphatic form A finnau if it is meant to be “Me too.”

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Well, to be picky (it’s what I do), the subjunctive-origin conditionals are the (broadly) southern byddwn i and (pe) bawn i, while the (broadly) northern baswn i actually is the (defunct) pluperfect, reassigned as a conditional. Crafty gogs, eh?! :slight_smile:

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Thanks so much, Siaron and Hendrik. Just to say that Sian Richards herself sent me a really kind reply, (in Welsh) confirming that it was indeed “Af i adref”. how nice of her.

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