SaySomethingin Italian (Beta)

[Catriona]

When I left for my walk this morning, I was on 99%. By the time I got home I was on Infinite Play. Whoo! I am a little sad that there was no fanfare (not even a tiny one) to mark the moment. But still, a satisfying achievement.

A good moment to reflect on what is otherwise an absolutely brilliant course. For me the biggest thing that needs fixing (and I know @Kai is working on this) is the way that words like penso, pensavo, voglio, volevo (which are often used in the randomly created phrases) impact on the verbs that follow. I have tried to correct them in my own head, but without the reinforcement of the model voices, it’s much harder.

The other thing I have mentioned before is that common irregular verbs like I come and I go aren’t introduced, which is a shame but not a massive stumbling block.

It will be fun to go back and reinforce what ive already learnt (which is a huge amount!!) but i may also be tempted to dip my toes in another language…

Thank you so much to the whole team for their amazing work. And to my fellow Italian learners, does anyone want to find a way to escirtare a parlare?

[Deborah-SSi]

you definitely deserve these @Catriona
I’ll have to raise that with the Tech Team - I think some sort of congratulatory celebration should be in order too!

[martin-harte]

Blatant favouritism. I finished the Italian course too and you didn’t give me even one “” and Catriona got 3?!!! I shall be messaging Aran about this if you don’t rectify this immediately.

[Deborah-SSi]

Well, I’d better make up for that. Here’s those 3 plus 1 extra -

But seriously, I think Catriona’s suggestion is a good one. There should be some kind of celebration in the app or I’d be spending my entire day on the forum watching out for people posting that they’ve finished the course!

I remember how emotional I felt when I finished the old Course 1 Welsh back in the day and heard the voice at the end telling me I was now “a Welsh speaker” and how much that meant to me. We do need to add something in to show how impressed we are with people who achieve the Infinite Play at the end. I’ll put it in as a suggestion

[gisella-albertini]

Congratulazioni @Catriona e @martin-harte! (sorry I don’t remember if there were any celebrations of your achievement!)

A questo punto, ci vuole anche un brindisi!

And congratulations at the end of the course, it’s definitely something worth adding.
Then Catriona and Martin can do the whole course again, just for the message at the end!

p.s. @deborah yes, that moment and that feeling is very clear in my memory and a great boost of confidence for carrying on with Level 2.
And by the way, this reminds me it was July of 7 years ago when I did SSiW Level 1 - what a journey since then! Worth an extra brindisi!

[Catriona]

I cried when I heard that message - it meant so much to me. I think it was after that I first dared to trying speaking to my mum in Welsh (her native language)

[gisella-albertini]

That’s even more special!

[stella-davey]

I am learning Italian and am at the beginning of the blue belt streak. I have found an annoying mistake which was also i the green with white belt section.

The bot says I am trying to find a glass
I respond sto cercando trovare un bicchiere (correct)
However, the bot responds sto cercando un bicchiere. No sign of trovare meaning to find.

(EDIT: I’ve moved your post into the general thread about the Italian course @stella-davey)

[Deborah-SSi]

@stella-davey Grazie for reporting that. We’re currently working on revisions of the Italian course, so that will be noted and included in the revision.

EDIT: from the comments below it seems it’s fine, and if @gisella-albertini can confirm that, then I’ve learnt something too! I’m working through the revised version of the Italian course currently in testing, but I’m only on Orange+Black, so a lot to learn yet!

[Catriona]

My interpretation was that the most accurate translation of ‘cercare’ would be ‘to seek’. So that you can say ‘sto cercando di imperare’ (I’m seeking to learn’) but if you are looking for something / trying to find something ‘trovare’ becomes redundant.

@gisella-albertini can you confirm / correct me?

[martin-harte]

I’m just a learner like you, so I might be wrong, but I don’t think it’s a mistake.

The core meaning of “cercare” (before it gets extended to mean “try”) is to look for. “I’m looking for a glass” and “I’m trying to find a glass” are essentially the same meaning in most situations and the former strikes me as simpler and more elegant.

I think it’s good to learn different ways to say things. IMO it’s a feature not a bug. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

Edit: I see Catriona already answered you.

Edit 2: if you did decide to say it the long way with both verbs, I think you might also need to include “di” after “cercare” IIRC.

[gisella-albertini]

@Deborah-SSi @Catriona @martin-harte

@stella-davey

The bot says I am trying to find a glass
I respond sto cercando trovare un bicchiere (correct)
However, the bot responds sto cercando un bicchiere. No sign of trovare meaning to find.

Sorry, I hadn’t noticed the debate until now!

I have to say that if the prompt is “I’m trying to find a glass” the translation for me would actually be like Stella says (adding the di like Martin said):
sto cercando di trovare un bicchiere.

It Is a bit redundant, but if that’s the prompt, that’s what you get in Italian too.
The focus in this case would be on the effort or somehow convey feeling a bit annoyed for having to waste time or taking more tîme than expected to do so.

Of course Sto cercando un bicchiere is a fine sentence, and more straightforward somehow, but simply means “I’m looking for a glass”

[stuartfrankel]

Oh, sorry to keep bothering @gisella-allbertini, but what do you think of (in the blue/black stripe): ‘Riesci a capire che sto dicendo’? I want to say ‘quello che’ instead of just ‘che’ but of course I don’t know much Italian.

[gisella-albertini]

No worries, when I started learning Welsh I asked a lot of questions myself, so it’s ok.

Yes I would say “quello che sto dicendo” or “cosa sto dicendo”.

“Che sto dicendo” sounds like a sort of mix between Italian and some center/south dialects but would be understood anyway.

[stuartfrankel]

thank you, grazie.

My number one complaint about the program is that it sometimes teaches you bad Italian.

[gisella-albertini]

I remembered one context where “riesci a capire che sto dicendo” would work well: followed by another “che” and introducing an explanation of what you mean to say.

I think in more than one case the sentence is not completely wrong. Just happens not to be the standard or more common, and rather a part of a longer sentence or a bit unusual.

I guess that the revision by humans will sort these things out!

[martin-harte]

Oh my!

I remember being surprised by this sentence and asking Chat GPT and being told that it was correct. I wanted to be sure, so I pressed Chat GPT, saying that I had expected “quello che” or “cio che” in this kind of structure and was told that both “che” and “quello che” were correct but that “che” alone was more common than “quello che” and that “cio che” was a literary form not really used in the everyday language. I accepted this and continued with the course.

I really need to listen more to @Hendrik and not trust its answers.

[gisella-albertini]

I agree with @Hendrik !

It’s also interesting (as an experiment) to see that if I ask Meta in Italian if it is correct, this is the answer:

[Catriona]

Any news on the update of the Italian course? It’s all been a bit quiet for a while

[Breandan]

I am into the black belt stage and have recently been give: “migliorare” to mean “best”. Example phrase: il modo migliorare for " the best way". Shouldn’t it be: il modo migliore?