SaySomethingin Italian (Beta)

Other Languages
#58

Hi, I am using SSi Italian which is in the beta phase.

I am experiencing some glitches:

Firstly, once or twice a word or phrase has been introduced with no time to repeat it or take in its meaning before another new word or phrase is brought in. Pressing revisit doesn’t help because it isn’t actually for repeating the missed word or phrase. Eventually it all falls into place but is frustrating.

Next, white noise on the repeating phase.
After I speak a word or phrase in Italian
the female voice usually chimes in with the word, or phrase said correctly! Three times now the voice has chimed in very belatedly after some white noise.

Lastly, time lag: The correct phrase comes up on the screen in Italian and is remaining there while the English for the next word or phrase is being spoken. Everything then gets out of sync.

3 Likes
#59

Although I think it probably would have made sense for these to be in a separate thread, as you have done, I’ve actually been pointing out these glitches in the “Big news - exciting times” thread itself.

Glitches like these are at least part of the reason why the course is still described as being in Beta; and pointing them out is genuinely helpful to the process of fixing them and getting it beyond that stage. I think the team are possibly already aware of all three of these specific issues, which means that fixes for some or all of them are already on the way - but please do let them know of any more that come up. Ideally, if you can give really specific information as to which word/sound file has gone wrong (eg in the white noise cases), that will probably be even better.

2 Likes
#60

I’ve combined 3 threads about the Italian course into this one here, so the comments are all together. :slight_smile:

#61

Prompt “I have, but” ne ho ma - female voice pronounces h as in English, male voice (correctly) doesn’t.
Prompt “the Italian for ‘an’ is” - female voice nothing (weird whiplash snaredrum sound), male voice (correctly) un.

1 Like
#62

Grazie mille @RichardBuck ! :star2:

1 Like
#63

Helo Deborah,

I remember you saying that I had access to the Italian but I am not sure how to find Italian. Is it under automagic?
I did finally re-download my Cymraeg at last! Better late than never eh? :grin:

#64

Shwmae @annmoore!

You can’t get to the Italian directly from the website. All the new languages are loaded into the new SaySomethingin app. There’s a mobile version which you can download and install from the usual app stores, or if you prefer to use a PC or laptop, go to app.saysomethingin.com in a browser. Make sure you log in with the same email address you usually use so the system can link to your account.

You’ll see the choice of languages available to you there.

1 Like
#65

Great, thank you Deborah. I thought I might give the Italian a go as my Grandson lives in Italy with his new and gorgous wife.
I haven’t been around much so have forgotten how to find my way around the website and forum. Can you tell me how to find the music again please? I tyoed music in the box but could only find posts from years ago. Sorry :person_shrugging:
Anyhow, its nice to hear from you and thank you for the prompt reply.

#66

Is this the thread you’re looking for?
Welsh Music Videos and Audio Files

#67

Snagging: after Aran introduces the word conosci and the two voices repeat it, the next prompt (where ‘you know’ would be expected) is a longish sentence instead: the voices respond with conosci, as expected.

1 Like
#68

I have recently started the Italian course. So excited for this course as I have built up a decent listening comprehension level with podcasts, Youtube, etc but I needed something to get me speaking.

Two quick comments.
One: I have only done 52 minutes and have reached the yellow with black stripe. That seems quite quick to progress 3 levels.

Two: One of the sentences was “You speak Italian with you”. Not that it hinders learning the words or phrases, but it is something that no one would say…

3 Likes
#69

Thanks for your comments!

Don’t worry about the belts - they start slowing down after the first few, and reaching black belt doesn’t mean you’ve finished the course :slight_smile:

1 Like
#70

Just listening to the latest version of the Italian course, and I can notice a few things have already been fixed since the very first version. Well done! :+1:

A couple of things I’ve noticed:
In the Welsh course I did (the one with the challenges, not Automagic), from time to time there was a very short explanation about some words an sentences or something that was going on.

Now I’ve just come across “you are” translated as “stai” .
Of course it is correct in some contexts, and it is easy for me to guess what blocks are going to be introduced next and what sentence you’re going to get in the end (present progressive).

However the most common translation of “you are” would be “(tu) sei” - unless you’re speaking napoletano. :grin:

I’m fully into learning without need of grammar and too much bla bla in between. But I guess this is a situation when a very quick introduction in the old SSiW version way could be useful, and wondering if there’s ever going to be any (in spoken or written form somewhere as additional notes)
Just sharing a reflection!

Just funny to notice: In the Welsh course of course there were the Northern and Southern version. in the French course, accents seem pretty neutral (as far as I can tell).
In the Italian, the woman is neutral and the man with Roma/center Italy accent! :smile:
Is there a particular reason for the choice or just accidental? (just curious)

Edit, more relevant at the moment: on my android phone the sentences right after this are all a bit out of sync (the one shown on the screen and the audio). Like Aran speaking while text shown is in Italian. Maybe it’s my phone but I can’t tell!

1 Like
#71

Agreed - I’d quite like it even if all we got was, “Now, in some sentences the Italian for ‘if’ is che” - building up to Non sono sicuro che posso… - instead of just ‘if’ = ‘che’.

2 Likes
#72

Great to hear your comments @gisella-albertini! :heart: :heart:

We’re definitely trying to stick to “no explanations” as much as possible just because we really want to avoid contributing to people thinking about grammar too much. The presentations are never a perfect match every time in every language anyway, and often phrases with different translations will just get presented many times with the other meanings. I think with those multiple introductions people catch on to the fact that it’s not very often a case of x=y. And maybe I’m biased as a napoletano, but I don’t mind if some italian learners go round saying “stai” instead of “sei” that early on, I’ll just be impressed they’re already breaking away from the practice phrases and trying new things :wink:

But nothing is certain about the future, and we’re open to whatever will make it a better course :smile: This is just something to think about carefully before we act, and the comments are a big help. We did play around with the idea of “One way to say x in Italian is…”, and that’s still an option.

With the voices, we had a few options for the male voice, and Dante here just ended up being the best - he spoke a bit slower and clearer than the others and the audio quality was better so it was easy to understand. There were no good options for female voices, so we used one that was originally made for French and the accent is just what the AI thinks she should have in italian… so that explains the neutrality :smile:

argh with the sync issues… Hoping we’ll fully crack it in January… (sorry)

3 Likes
#73

Ciao, Kai! :slight_smile:

I’m totally for sticking to avoiding grammar and rationalization as much as possible in the course - since it worked so well for me!

At the same time, I’m not completely sure that for learners who might not be exposed to the actual spoken language, and all it’s natural variations until later and/or not very often (as it is often the case with these courses) I think it’s worth keeping into consideration a hint here and there that might help storing things the most efficient way and/or avoiding confusion.

For example, knowing a bit how my brain works by now, I was thinking:
if I heard/said again and again “stai” for “you are” from the very beginning of the course, I’d tend to hear it as “THIS is THE way to say that” and feel very confident about it.
If later in the course, all of a sudden, the Italian voices started using “sei” instead, I’d think either “there’s a mistake in the course!” or “am I wrong, then? But why?”.
And I’d probably tend to resist the new translation for some time, or even try to look for someone to ask or look for some explanation elsewhere.
Especially now with Automagic where, at the moment, it’s basically impossible to just go back and listen to the last sentence again or go back to the beginning of the challenge or a few challenges back to check for comparison.

I believe a simple sentence, similar to the one you mentioned (or at least that idea) “one way to say this…you’ll learn more later” just allows you to learn this now, and then know that in other contexts there will be other ways, and you’ll just keep room for them and won’t be surprised when they appear later.

I wouldn’t do it for every single expression that has several ways to be translated.
But “essere” is one of the very basics and probably one that’s worth extra attention and care!

Of course I remember you’re napoletano, but also as a torinese I think it’s fine for anyone to go out and say “stai” instead of “sei” - over here people came to work at Fiat from all over Italy and actually it’s normal to hear all sorts of variations derived from different dialects (Like “scendi il cane!” instead of “fai scendere il cane” :laughing).
So that’s not really a worry, I’m sure everyone understands anyway, it’s just I can’t help but wondering if there’s a sweet spot between too much explanations and…zero, none at all! :smiley:

As for the voice… Dante, ha ha :rofl:! O, noi ci si aspetta di senti’ un Dante fiorentino, suvvia! :wink:
(just jokin now - it’s ok, if you’ve compared the available voices and chose that.
I was just curious.
The French lady turned Italian sounds fine and very clear to me, surprisingly!

Anyway good luck for next steps, and if you like I can write more notes and random reflections, while I go on listening to the course… until you have enough of my ramblings! :laughing:

1 Like
#74

So - and correct me if I’m wrong - now you have issues with southerners, too? :rofl:

#75

Fear not, also in Italy it’s Gog accents that are (in general) less pleasant to my ears! :smiley:

Napoletano accent is one of the nicest sounding. And I’ve got a Beneventano in the house, too, so had the chance to hear accent from his family a lot!

2 Likes
#76

By the way, I was focusing on the idea of keeping into consideration including a few hints here and there - which I agreed with.

However, while we’re here and speaking of random examples, I’m not sure if “che” would build to “non sono sicuro che posso”, as in Italian it would normally be “non sono sicuro di poter(e)”.
But there’s a lot of less common and/or more complex indirect sentences, which might include that or quite a few other tenses even!

So in this case it might be tricky to find the right introduction, as there’s probably even more variations I can’t think of building up from that “che”… and maybe just better leave it just as it is.

But I don’t know, it’s just reflections, it’s not easy to find just the right balance, with languages that often don’t really build sentences the same way I guess !

2 Likes
#77

I agree that introducing a few key words in a simple way could be helpful.

Building on others’ comments, I noticed that ‘che’ is used to mean ‘that’ in the sentence ‘I want that = voglio che.’ From my understanding of how the Welsh course is structured, this will likely be used later to construct longer sentences. However, for someone with no prior knowledge of the language, this might be confusing if they are trying to say ‘I want that (thing).’

That being said, I’ve only completed the free portion of the course up to the orange belt level. The issues seem to be very minor and I can see the overall value of the course and it was enough to convince me to subscribe.

3 Likes