QUESTIONS: How To Say

While starting my hundreth post on ‘how do I say…’ I thought it might be helpful to title it in such a way so that it indicates a location where anyone can put their general ‘how do I say…’ questions that are not related to any of the courses. If not, let me know and I’ll chaNge the title.

On to the first question:

Do adverbs, like adjectives, generally follow the verb in Welsh?
For example, if I want to say I really know, would it be dwi’n gobod yn wir?

I wanted to leave this for someone else because I’m not sure but after 21 hours thought I’d have a go. :wink:

No. So I really know is ‘dw i’n wir gwybod’ or ‘wybod’ … I don’t know about mutations, sorry.

I’m really sorry … Mae’n wir drwg gen i. :wink: (or ddrwg?)

I think I’ve possibly seen/ heard this - Dwi wir yn meddwl Meaning “I truly/really think” So: Dwi wir yn gwybod
This might be wrong though!

A question of my own as I’m writing a pub review for - Ar y Ffordd. Does - Dwy funud ar droed o ganol y dre, mi ddes o hyd y Twt Hill dafarn dan i sang efo, Cofis Dre/Two minutes from the centre of town I came across the Twt Hill pub chockablock with Cofis - work

Dwi wir yn gwybod isn’t (afaik) grammatically wrong, but I can’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say it - dwi wirioneddol yn gwybod sounds more likely, but a slightly odd pairing with gwybod - I think this is a ‘doesn’t quite match’ kind of situation. Could you let me know what sort of situation you’d be likely to use that phrase in?

In the general case, adverbs formed by “yn + adjective” do tend to follow the verb - so, for example, from Course 1 as I recall - “I whisper quietly” is dw i’n sibrwd yn ddistaw (not *\dw i’n ddistaw yn sibrwd). But as Aran says, the particular example using gwybod and gwir does sound a bit odd.

I’d thought I’d heard this construction (possibly read it in Prysors work - ha-ha!) and by Googling here are a few examples and links to them. Of course, generally as, Ifan/Kinetic says…
Do you think it might be an English pattern creeping in?

Dwi wir yn meddwl dylen ni defnyddio term arall i “pigion” …

http://gwanas.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/clwb-darllen-rhaglen-radio-cymru-tudur-owen/allai
Mi Clwb Darllen Tudur newid hyn. O ddifri rwan, dwi’m yn meddwl mod i’n gor-ddeud. Os allwn ni ei wneud o’n hwyl ac yn ddifyr ( ac mi rydan ni wedi addo bod yn onest – heb fod yn gas, gobeithio!), dwi wir yn meddwl y gallen ni ddenu ambell un ( mi fysa miloedd yn neis, ond dwi’n trio bod yn realistig) i brynu neu fenthyg llyfr Cymraeg, ac yna eu mwynhau a deud wrth eu mêts, sy’n deud wrth eu mêts hwythau ac ati ac ati. Wel? Wyddoch chi byth!

Er, dwi ddim wir yn meddwl am hynny pan dwi’n creu …

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/safle/talwrn/2005/22_05.shtml
Dwi wir ddim yn meddwl o gwbwl

@Aran and @Kinetic…An example would be I really know what I;m talking about
Or:
I really did find the thing
Or:
I really laughed at that (I really did laugh at that)

Is that not a Welsh construction? Would pendant be more common…as in I gwbod yn bendant am llyfr ma?

Is that not a Welsh construction?

Look at the English again, and you’ll see that it’s (at least!) two constructions in English - one is more about emphasis, the other about confirmation - when a single word operates in different ways in your own language, it’s always a good sign it won’t map neatly to others…:smile:

With these three, I personally would go:

I really know what I’m talking about -> Dwi wirioneddol yn gwybod am beth dwi’n sôn.

I really did find the thing -> Mi wnes i ffeindio’r peth, go iawn. Or mi wnes i ffeindio’r peth, wir yr.

I really laughed at that -> Mi wnes i chwerthin llond fy mol ar hynna.

All of which is a good sign that you reach a point where just using your Welsh to communicate, and listening to other people doing the same, is an easier way forward than trying to map the things you like to say in English in Welsh on a case by case basis…:smile:

Interesting, because dwi wir yn meddwl mod i wedi clywed neu ddarllen ‘wir yn [verbnoun]’ in the past. Wonder if it’s popular on Twitter because it’s shorter than the alternatives?

Not quite the same, but one I’ve heard more than once on “Rownd a Rownd” is

“Dw i’n mor sori” - I’m so sorry".

Soaps being what they are, that kind of thing crops up quite a bit. :slight_smile:

(Most recently with Dani and the “doedd dim babi” situation…".
Unfortunately, I can’t quite remember the exact construction she used, but it was along those lines…).

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because dwi wir yn meddwl mod i wedi clywed neu ddarllen ‘wir yn [verbnoun]’ in the past

Sure, you’ll hear it plenty, but it’ll depend a fair bit on which [verbnoun] we’re dealing with. As I said at the top, I’ve nothing grammatical against ‘dwi wir yn gwybod’, but it just isn’t a combination you’ll hear often. Dw i wir isio, on the other hand, is common.

@Mike Ellwood: I think she said to Bari “dw i’n mor sori, dos na’m babi.” … tense close-up on Bari … cut to the salon!

Not that I watch that kind of rubbish of course, but if I did I’d be wondering why she didn’t sort it out during her first visit to the hospital.

Does anyone else find Meical impossible to understand with his super fast nasally mumblings.

Not that I watch it of course …

@Gruntius: Diolch. I thought it wasn’t quite what I wrote, but of course, I got the gist when she said it [and I suppose I should apologise for the spoiler, for anyone who is stockpiling episodes to watch later, but rili, we could all see that one coming a miltir off couldn’t we …? :slight_smile:

Yes, I agree about Meical…and now it seems he’s back for good, so we’ll have our work cut out.

Unlike the beautifully clear Ken - Idris Morris Jones, who was mentioned in a previous post about Radio Cymru’s “Sesiwn Fach”. Which reminds me there was another edition with him on last Thursday:

4 more days to listen at the time of writng. Dw i’n mor licio his speaking voice on that show, and the music isn’t bad either.

Sorry I’m late getting back to this (work/life/agh).

@Mike Ellwood, what is this Rownd a Rownd and is it available on S4C? I don’t mind rubbish, so long as it is in Welsh, I’m good.

@Aran: I’m not trying to map things on a case-by-case basis; the phrases I ask about are things I remember trying to say in my Welsh chats but not having the Welsh to do so…something that happens a lot. Makes me wish there was a sort of cheat sheet…a cymraeg gramadeg dalen twyll…with the different ways of conveying different meanings.

Look at the English again, and you’ll see that it’s (at least!) two constructions in English - one is more about emphasis, the other about confirmation - when a single word operates in different ways in your own language, it’s always a good sign it won’t map neatly to others…

Point taken. Have to say, whenever i get frustrated with my progress in Welsh, i remind myself of how much more difficult English is…with its “I saw a saw” and such.

With these three, I personally would go:

I really know what I’m talking about -> Dwi wirioneddol yn gwybod am beth dwi’n sôn.

I really did find the thing -> Mi wnes i ffeindio’r peth, go iawn. Or mi wnes i ffeindio’r peth, wir yr.

I really laughed at that -> Mi wnes i chwerthin llond fy mol ar hynna.

A few questions:

I’m not familiar with the Mi wnes i construction… is that a North construction or a grammatical construction.

llond fy mol ar hynna. Not sure what that means… and Google Translate says it means fed my belly on that, which does not sound correct.

What from of gwir is gwirioneddol?

I’m not familiar with the Mi wnes i construction… is that a North construction or a grammatical construction.

Those two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive :wink: Basically, putting the mi on the front of a positive statement is an optional thing which you’ll sometimes hear done for emphasis, or sometimes just because it somehow “sounds better”. The meaning in this case is identical to a normal wnes i.

Llond dy mol literally means “full my belly”, and in this context sounds as though it’s an idiomatic expression equivalent to “laugh my socks off” or whatever. Sometimes people say “belly laugh” in English too, don’t they?

gwirioneddol is derived from gwirionedd (“truth”), and dw i wirioneddol yn… is a common way of expressing “I really…”. In this case, “I really know what I’m talking about”.

Rownd a rownd is, as far as I can tell, a soap opera set in northern Wales; so it’s like the northern version of Pobl y Cwm as far as practice goes. It is indeed on S4C, but I couldn’t tell you when.

How would you say “a sense of belonging” in Welsh. I am just watching a programme with subtitles but although speaking Welsh he said that bit in English.

Hiraeth comes to mind.

Geiriadur:

belonging n. [-]

  1. a sense of belonging - ymdeimlad o berthyn

Rownd a Rownd:
It’s on Tuesday and Thursday evening (repeated on Friday I think), although I only ever watch it via Clic. It is made in Menai Bridge, Ynys Môn, and centered around a small row of shops/businesses in a real street in Menai Bridge, although the shops are not real.

Apparently it was originally aimed at teenagers, and featured the lives of the kids who did paper rounds, delivering papers from the newsagents in the row of shops (hence “Rownd a Rownd”). However, although the kids and the school still features, it seems to be more about the adults in their families than the kids these days.

I think it’s very good, and I’ve become a firm fan.

Gwefan: http://www.s4c.co.uk/rowndarownd/

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“Teimlad o berthyn” was the first direct-ish translation that occurred to me. I just googled it and there seem to be lots of results using it in the sense you intended. :slight_smile: