I’ve been forced into our office choir (because my boss is the choirmaster, so I have to for some reason. I will get this working in an office lark one day!). We’re preparing things for Christmas. As we are based in Cardiff, the choirmaster wants us to do something in Welsh (he has zero Welsh himself) and has chosen Suo Gan. Around half the choir can read,but not speak Welsh, the rest have no or very little Welsh. So I’ve been asked for a ‘phonetic version’ of the Welsh as i am the ‘Welsh expert’ (P’ah!) Can anyone help, or point me to a resource for writing Welsh in phonetic English?
Suo Gan
Hunan blentyn, are fy mynwes
Clyd a chynnes ydyw hon
Breichiau mam sy’n dyn amdanat
Cariad mam sy dan fy mron
Ni chaiff dim amharu’th gyntun
Ni wna undyn a thi gam
Huna’n dawel, annwyl bientyn
Huna’n fwyn are fron dy fam
Huna’n dawel hana huna
Huna’n fwyn why del ei lun
Pam yr wyt yn awr yn gwenum
Gwenu’n dirion yn dy hun
Ai angylion fry sy’n gwenu
Arnat yno’n gwenu’n lion
Titha’you’n gwenu’n ol a huno
Huno’n dawel are fy mron
Paid ag ofni, dim ond deilen
Gura, gura are why ddor
Paid aga ofni ton fach unig
Sua, sua are lan why mor
Huna blentyn nid oes yma
Ddim i roddi iti fraw
Gwena’n dawel are fy mynwes
are yr engyl gwynion draw
I think you are up against it with phonetics (unless you were to use the IPA - which I don’t suggest you try to use unless you and all the others already know the latter), because any attempt to represent phonetics in “English” won’t work because English is a very un-phonetic language.
Your best bet is to get a volunteer, who is either 1st-language Welsh, or a highly experienced and competent 2nd-language speaker to record it for you (speaking - they don’t have to sing) and then give all the participants a copy, or let them have access to a copy).
I’d be happy to volunteer myself, but I don’t fit the criteria of “competent” or “highly experienced”, but I’m sure there are many here who do/would.
(Edit: As I see you are Cardiff-based, I guess you need a southern-oriented volunteer)
Hmm, unfortunately I am the supposed ‘highly experienced/ competent’ person and will have to read the words out for the choir. I could just give it a go, trying to forget my knowledge of Welsh spelling and try phonetic English. I might just post my attempt here at the weekend for feedback/ giggles.
As I’ve done the Northern course and kind of speak that way, it’ll probably sound a little ‘Northern’, but I’ll wager there won’t be anyone in London who’ll think ‘A Cardiff based choir with a slight Northern Welsh accent, how odd’
I doubt that a phonetic version would be an effective solution, even if it could be obtained. I recommend repeatedly listening to it being sung in Welsh, preferably while following the words. There are solo versions available on the internet by Bryn Terfel, Katherine Jenkins and even Charlotte Church in her ‘Voice of an Angel’ days.
I have found listening to Welsh hymn singing to be an excellent way of learning how to pronounce Welsh words. eg Dechrau Canu, Dechrau Canmol on S4C - where the Welsh appears in subtitles.
As the SSiW method demonstrates, listening is a very effective way of learning. That includes pronunciation.
The main hiccups with writing something phoenetically in english spelling is that even then people can interpret and pronounce the ‘phonetic’ spellings differently*, they don’t neccessarily show where the stresses should fall, and as we know, there are some sounds that just don’t transcribe (the ch, dd, and ll sounds for example).
Pererin’s suggestion of repeatedly listening to it sung in Welsh is what I would have recommended too.
*the only way to combat this is for each person to write out the sound in their own way - which would mean they’d have to listen repeatedly to it being pronounced either by someone in person or a recording anyway
The nearest thing to a reasonable online resource I’ve come across is this http://britannia.com/celtic/wales/language.html
It would still be a challenge writing the whole song phonetically in a way everyone would get straight away, but perhaps printing that out and distributing it to everyone to ‘practice’ with might be a start.
“Gwd lwc. Ai hop ddat yw can ryd ddys and ddat yt meiks sens tw yw. Iff yw can ryd ddys, dden yw ar dwing ffaen and wil haf no problems at ol yn lyrnyng awr ffaen Welsh alffabet.”
yes, good isn’t it? It’s actually much, much easier to write english in welsh phonetics than it is to write welsh in english ones
(and people do do it too. I see it on facebook and in emails very often and also in novels - for instance, in Dewi Prysor’s books, when his characters say something in english he often writes the dialogue phonetically in welsh)
Haven’t read all this, but I’d suggest that the choir just familiarises themselves with Welsh sounds. It’s unfair that you should be doing all this extra work, and anyway Welsh phonetics are more consistent than English
