Warning!! Grammar question coming up. I haven’t got past lesson six as I’m stuck. It stopped me a couple of months ago, and here I am again.
Question: Beth mae eisiau/beth sydd eisiau - beth yw’r gwahaniaeth?
Iestyn said: ‘what you need to do’ and I said: ‘beth sydd eisiau iti neud’ . But Iestyn said 'beth mae eisiau iti neud.
Basically, am I wrong to use the beth sydd eisiau + ‘i’ +verb? Is it more formal/correct? Or is it just an alternative?
I checked with some examples online and see the following:
Nid oes arnaf angen unrhyw ddarlithoedd ynghylch beth sydd eisiau i ni ei wneud fel gweinyddiaeth
Ni fydd amser i’r holl Aelodau sydd eisiau siarad wneud hynny
Dyna beth y mae ar bobl ei eisiau
Nid wyf yn sicr beth y mae ar Alun ei eisiau
Otherwise, I’m loving the New Challenge lessons.
:diolch:
Thanks, Louis. I see that holds in general eg: Beth sy’n digwydd fan yma?, versus Beth mae fe’n gwneud nawr! But how does it work with ‘eisiau’? The analysis doesn’t seem so straightforward to me. Can’t get my head round it yet.
Thanks also, Jason. I think I feel like going back to the old course, where we were drilled on the use of eisiau, but I don’t remember if it was exactly the same construction.
However, with the examples above of similar sentences I took from mymemory.translated.net, it seems I’m not the only one using the alternative (eg Nid oes arnaf angen unrhyw ddarlithoedd ynghylch beth sydd eisiau i ni ei wneud fel gweinyddiaeth)
So does that imply that Arianrhod was correct to say ‘beth sydd eisiau i ti neud’ - but with mae also being acceptable in speech? (Being lesson 6, maybe sydd hasn’t been introduced yet?
The difference is beth mae eisiau i ti wneud is what there is a need for you to do. Beth sydd eisiau i ti wneud X, on the other hand, is what is needed for you to do X. Does that make more sense, Arianrhod?
I also remember coming across “beth sydd eisiau” in the old course, but I think it was related to needing an object (rather than to do something), as in “Beth sydd esiau arna’i”
I don’t think I fully understand the difference between using both constructions with an action though… the intent seems pretty similar to me.
Nope, still don’t get it. I’ll ask around to see if I can get more detail, as I know Aran hates the grammar questions.
I’m hoping it’ll be one of those answers we’ve had before (specifically regarding ‘os gallaf’) where SSIW is more correct than most Welsh speakers! And I love the ‘bo fi’ bit, where we know the correct way, but let’s just ‘ymlacio’ into the language.
Here’s why I’m still perplexed: The examples I gave came from (I guess) professional translations from the Welsh Assembly eg.
Nid oes arnaf angen unrhyw ddarlithoedd ynghylch beth sydd eisiau i ni ei wneud fel gweinyddiaeth
and
Dyna beth y mae ar bobl ei eisiau.
So, ‘eisiau i ni ei wneud’ uses ‘sydd’, and ‘ar bobl ei eisiau’ uses ‘y mae’. Which is different from the drill example in lesson 6, hence my confusion.
Hmm, yes actually still not making complete sense. I’m still for the slightly interchangeable solution - would like to know whether both could be correct in the original question.
Reminds me (randomly) of what it used to say on our bin bags a few years ago: “Beth sydd yn eich bin?” I remember asking someone who went to Welsh classes at the time why it was sydd, and not mae or ydy, and they didn’t know… This is making me think that I still don’t know! (But would like to??) Could it have something to do with the element of uncertainty?
Perhaps it might be easier to think of the English word “is” having two meanings here. There’s the meaning that’s to do with what a thing is; for that you use mae. There’s also the meaning where you could also say, instead of “what is in your bin”, “what is it that is in your bin?”. Sydd is essentially “is it that is” or “it is that is”. For example: Who is it that is coming? Pwy sy’n dod? What is it that is in your bin? Beth sydd yn eich bin? It’s my fault (me it is that is at fault). Fi sydd ar fau (not sure about the spelling there).
I don’t think you do know that, since it’s not the case…
@Netmouse - yes to ‘slightly interchangeable’ - I think Chris’s overview here is a very good one - and you can add to it the fact that there’ll be variations sometimes as well - so the two examples Arianrhod gives just above (from the Assembly) could be switched in speech without anyone batting an eyelid. You’d never hear ‘beth mae/ydy yn eich bin’, though, although you will hear ‘beth ydi o’n mynd i wneud?’ and ‘dwi’n gwybod beth mae o isio’.
When grammar meets usage, the results can certainly be puzzling. It can be tricky enough explaining to some English speakers when they ought to use ‘whom’ - even before you consider that usage is wriggly.
My only concern is that you (plural) might get frustrated about grey/puzzling areas like this - if you want to carry on trying to refine the variations into a reliable and consistent rule, in the same way that you might enjoy doing a jigsaw puzzle or a crossword, go for it - but if you start to feel frustrated and despondent, rest assured that hearing and speaking enough Welsh will give you the (largely unconscious) models that will lead to you sounding natural…
Quote Arianrhod>as I know Aran hates the grammar questions.
Quote Aran >>I don’t think you do know that, since it’s not the case…
Aha! Sorry, Aran, I’ve got the link to the old forum where there is plenty of evidence of agonised howls coming from your direction. Onibai bod ti’n rhaffu celwyddau weithiau, wrth gwrs.
Many thanks for the fuller answer… I take it that the answer is that it’s an either/or then.
