Level 2 Challenge 22 help

Welsh
#1

I have just tried level 2 challenge 22 and am completely confused by it. In the second half it starts doing negatives and doesn’t explain in the usual way. I can’t even understand what is being said in Welsh and it’s not in the vocab section and basically I can’t find it anywhere and I’m getting very frustrated. Help please

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#2

Can you give an example? Don’t worry about spelling - just roughly what it sounds like.

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#3

North or south @chris-powell? - possibly the use of ‘so’ for the nagative present tense, if south, taking a quick look at the vocab?

Edit: @JohnYoung has beaten ne to it! :smile:

Rich :slight_smile:

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#4

nagyn nwn moyn???

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#5

nag is the negative ‘that’, so that bit is “that they don’t want”
(without a ‘that’ in the English, it would be “dydyn nhw ddim yn moyn” - they don’t want)
Does that help?

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#6

I think so, thanks. Still not sure why it was not explained, or in the vocab like everything else has been?

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#7

I think negative 'that’s were in Level 1 challenge 22.

#8

Yes, I’m completely confused by this too, even after the explanations above. I can hear there’s a “nage” in there, but I don’t know why it’s nage rather than ddim, or what the words surrounding it are supposed to be, and they’re not in the vocab list.

So I’m confused by the fact that these two are so different:

  1. He didn’t tell me if you wanted anything - Ddwedodd e ddim wrtha i os o’ch chi’n moyn unrhywbeth. That makes sense - there’s a past tense and a ddim.

  2. I said that he hadn’t told me anything - dwedes i nage ydy wedi dweud unrhywbeth wrtha i. This one I don’t understand at all; no “ddim”, no “e” or “fe”, so I don’t understand how the construct works. Where’s the word for “he”, and why is “dwedes i nage” “he hadn’t”, as it looks to me like it should mean “I said no”, rather than “I said he hadn’t”.

#9

In your fist example, yes, there’s a past tense and a ddim, but there is no ‘that’ in the English. When you have a negative ‘that’, you don’t need ddim as the negative too.

In your second example, there is a ‘that’ in the English, and that’s why there’s a nag rather than a ddim: dwedais i nag oedd e wedi dweud unrhywbeth wrtha i
What you’ve taken to be “nage ydy” is actually “nag oedd e”, so the ‘he’ is there, and it’s “dwedais i nag” - I said that (negative) - rather than dwedais i nage - I said no.

‘that’ in Welsh does take a lot of practice because it’s not one single word like it is in English, so it will take some time to get your head round (took me years!), but it’ll slot in eventually.

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#10

Hi, Siaron - I thought I understood your answer, but I’m stumbling across something very similar on challenge 24.

You’d tell me if she didn’t want to go
Byddet ti’n dweud wrtha i nag oedd hi’n moyn mynd

You’d tell me if she didn’t want to answer
Byddet ti’n dweud wrtha i bod hi ddim yn moyn ateb y cwestiwn

The structure seems identical in each, but one has a “nag” and the other has “ddim” and a bod - so I’m struggling to see what the rule is here, as they’re both “You’d tell me if she didn’t want to X”, so is it just that mynd is irregular and operates differently? And this time, there’s no “that” at all as there was in challenge 22 :slight_smile:

#11

yup, this is where it gets particularly confusing.

The nag here is actually nad i.e. negating the oedd, and in dialect it’s often pronounced nag - but it’s not the same nag as the ‘negative-that’ one.

So nad oedd hi = bod hi ddim yn and both are equally valid, so you can use either.

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