It IS broadly right, but your terminology is slightly wrong - a pronoun used after a preposition is not an indirect object pronoun…it’s just an object pronoun. So in Welsh it’s not about types of pronoun, it’s simply (as you correctly spotted), that when the pronoun is the object of a VN, then you don’t use the pronoun, you use the possessive adjective (for example ei - although you can use the echoing pronoun that optionally accompanies possessives) instead, and when it’s used after a preposition, you do use the ordinary pronoun (for example fo).
Ga i 'CH helpu (chi)? - Can I help you? (helpu is VN) Fe helpon ni CHI - We helped you (helpon is NOT a VN)
Mi oedd yn braf iawn EI gweld (hi) - It was very nice to see her (gweld is VN) Mi welwn ni HI yfory - We’ll see her tomorrow (gwelwn is NOT a VN)
This is a perennially popular topic, isn’t it? Even among people who (think they) hate grammar talk…
Thank you. That really makes it makes so much sense to me!
I think I have a supplementary about how to tell a verb noun from a noun. I think if it’s formed in a compound with something like mae or wedi or byth, then it’s a verb noun. But simple forms ( like welodd, wela …) are true verbs?
You got it. In Welsh, the unconjugated form (what we’d call the infinitive in english) of a verb can also be used as a noun, hence the term verbnoun. In “long” constructions you use a conjugated auxilliary verb (Dw i for example) plus the verbnoun carrying the meaning. If the “meaningful” verb itself is conjugated, then it is not a verb noun, and these are sometimes called “short form” (simply because Af i is shorter than Dw i’n mynd )
Yes - the VN is the dictionary form of the verb, and it is a true noun (you can even stick the definite article y in front of it, and indeed use adjectives after it), conveying only the meaning, without specifying when or who or how of the action. That’s added with auxiliaries and particles and the like. And then verbs with endings are true verbs - meaning in the stem, when, who and how in the endings.
I wholeheartedly approve of the Datblygu reference! (And the song from which it comes, Mae’r Nyrs Adref, is a particular favourite of mine.)
As you say, the ‘ei’ refers to ffôn (masculine) from the previous line (“Mae’r ffôn wastad yn canu”). Amdani refers to a female nurse (see @Catriona’s post for personal forms of prepositions). The missing bit from your quote is ‘efo ond tywel’ (with only a towel). So: “The phone’s always ringing / a nurse answers it (i.e. the phone) / only a towel around her (i.e. wearing only a towel).”
I definitely think Datblygu lyrics are the perfect resource for discussing the finer points of Welsh grammar.
Yep, mine too! I was interested in the Welsh language before Datblygu but they were definitively what spurred me into learning it (albeit it took me quite a few years to get round to it). I think it was the way David sings/declaims the word “sglodion” (still one of my favourite Welsh words) at the end ‘Mynwent’ that made me think: wow, I really have to learn that language!
Honorary mention to Gorky’s Zygotic Mynci too (see their albums Patio and Tatay).