How would the sentiment “Thinking of you” (on a greeting card for instance) be expressed? “Yn feddwl amdanat ti”, could it be shortened to “Feddwl amdanat ti” or something entirely different?
there’s correct and there’s personal. I’ve seen loads of natural and first language speakers just writing “meddwl amdanot” or “meddwl amdanoch”.
So even the implied ‘yn’ by using the soft mutation isn’t used and does the mutated word indeed imply the ‘yn’ ok?
I think it’s a verb. [I am] thinking about you. Therefore no need, ever, for the mutation. Meddwl amdanat. The yn is sometimes used and sometimes not. I’m sure there’s a grammar war to be had over which is correct, but we don’t worry about such things here.
Ah, “Yn meddwl” = adverb and meddwl = verb and it’s the construction with the verb that’s used. Seems like I was transcribing the English into Welsh rather than translating.
Useful insights guys. Much appreciated.
This isn’t exactly my area, but is it an adverb at all, ever, in any way? It seems to me always to be a verb…
I’d say that ‘yn meddwl’ is always a verb in Welsh, certainly…
I’m trying to imagine a verb being described by ‘thinking’ in English… he ran thinking? I go thinking? It’s a secondary verb there, isn’t it? Thoughtfully would be the adverb, wouldn’t it?
[/quite enough grammar for this month]
Oh boy — I must get more sleep ! and .
Still, the main query was sorted.
Ahhh… I think maybe you were coming at it from the Welsh angle (which is interesting and encouraging!) - but making the mistake of thinking that ‘yn’ must signify an adverb…
But you have two ways to use ‘yn’ - doing something ‘yn’ gyflym and so on, but also ‘rydw i yn siarad’ -> ‘dwi’n siarad’…
With an adverb, where it can, ‘yn’ will indeed cause a softening… but with a verb, it won’t… so ‘dwi’n meddwl’…
I think it’s pretty much the same in English, too (sori) – though more general in Welsh – isn’t it? I’m thinking that to make an adverb it’s yn + adjective (with SM) yn breifat / ‘in private’ / ‘privately’, whereas yn + verb-noun is doing roughly the same job as using an English ‘-ing’ form. Maybe it’d help if we did our English more piratically – O’n i’n cerdded… “I was a-walking…”
Hi guys, had a near sleepless night trying to figure out why on earth I should have (in my post yesterday) ‘said’ that ‘yn meddwl’ is an adverb. And I couldn’t and I also felt/feel deeply embarrassed as a result. Maybe there were too many other things going on in my head at the time and I had a very very senior moment. So — apologies for the nonsensical part/s of the post and for the waste of your time in responding (very kindly and sensitively I might add).
This morning I was reading some of the posts regarding ‘Thank you’s’ to the people who have been helpful to other members (sometimes mutually). The number of posts and their contents is quite remarkable and reflective of the enormous value of Ssiw. Long may it continue.
Good heavens, Trevor, don’t feel embarrassed! If anything, you ought to feel proud - because I think the mix-up almost certainly came from thinking in terms of Welsh patterns rather than English ones, which is a very encouraging sign…
And remember - every question you’re brave enough to ask on here helps loads and loads of other people - who have the same or similar questions but aren’t confident enough to ask - so your willingness to ask doesn’t just get help for you, but for everyone else too…
Ok Aran, point accepted. Guess I was angry with myself for making the mistake when I am well acquainted with the uses of yn. As regards my original question… I was trying to get a feel of what could be ‘chopped’ in Welsh in order to retain acceptable usage and when it becomes poor usage e.g. “Dw i’n meddwl amdanat ti”, “Meddwl amdanat ti” or, say for graphic reasons simply “Meddwl amdanat”. I sense that the second reduced format might be acceptable in speech but the third I wouldn’t use in speech. Would it come across OK graphically on say a greeting card and be just that bit more casual in the kind of way that for instance rydw i yn is shortened to dw i’n?
The number of times I’ve spent time worrying about mistakes I’ve made. I fully understand why you feel embarrassed but as an observer this wasn’t an embarrassing moment. We all get confused about stuff to do with Welsh. Forgetting words we know we know, grammatical things we know we know etc. Please don’t be embarrassed!! Learning a language isn’t easy. Some of it’s really bloody hard (which is different for everyone). One of the hardest things is putting yourself in a vulnerable position by making mistakes. So: [quote=“aran, post:11, topic:9673”]
remember - every question you’re brave enough to ask on here helps loads and loads of other people
Definitely!! You’ll often see cards with “Caru ti” on them. And, in fact, Bodlon sell a card with “meddwl amdanoch” on the front
Thanks Anthony — you expressed my feelings exactly.
Regards the ‘abbreviations’, I guess such things become easily apparent/absorbed if you’re in the environment where you continually see and hear examples. Not quite so when you don’t. Thank you for the info/examples.
Yup, this would be fine…
Not read the whole thread-but I think* meddwl amdanti etc is fine- and yn would only be used in conjunction (not as A Conjunction) with pronouns of some sort… so the yn defines the verb in relation to someone or something- but as a clause meddwl means both think thinking.eg if someone wanted to say, off hand, on the fly, “thinking about you” they’d not use yn. ?
Though it may sometimes look as if it’s softening a verb, as in Beth wyt ti’n feddwl am…?, but (as I understand it) it’s not the yn that’s doing the softening but the ghost of an invisible ei as in Beth wyt ti yn ei feddwl am…?
I’m intrigued by the use of ‘amdanti’. Is this a very common abbreviation of amdanat ti?
Amdanat is a more common abbreviation