I thought about this the other day when I saw a comment on Twitter from someone who responded to a point that someone had made about the language. That person said people from outside Wales were just using learning the language as some kind of ‘badge of honour’. Thinking back, I also remember a few comments from attending language events in Wales. I remember one particular grumpy Welsh learner having a go at an English learner asking her why she ‘wanted to be Welsh’? What nonsense. Does that mean that someone who learns French or Spanish wants to be French or Spanish? Of course not.
We live in a world where we’re not going to stop the movement of people so you’d think that people would recognise that a language facing challenges needs new speakers wherever they’re from. I’ve recently started watching Dal Ati on S4C and a number of the learners they feature are from outside Wales. The last one was a blind woman originally from Canada.
I’d hasten to add that the negative comments, in my experience, are very much in the minority, but you’d think that people would be clever enough to realise that they’re not helping.
I’ve personally had one comment of this nature in 15 years - so I’m pretty sure it’s not widespread enough to be doing any serious damage (although of course it’s not helpful).
I’ve never met it, but I suppose, if you are Welsh, have finally got around to learning, and find it hard, it might just be a bit jealousy-making to meet someone from, say, Slovenia or Belarus or Cambridge who speaks it much better than you do!!
Personally, I find it a bit of a challenge, not that I’m rising to it by putting effort into those Levels!!
I’m sure it’s a very small minority. There will always be people who like to grumble in any language about anything. I’ve generally had really good responses from Welsh speakers and non-welsh speakers in Wales about my learning Welsh and generally they’ve taken quite an interest in my motivations and offered encouragement.
The only odd experience I have had, which wasn’t negative to me as a Welsh learner, was when I had to ring a lady to check something at work. A man answered in Welsh. I asked for the lady in English and he replied in Welsh. So I though fair enough, I’ll try a little bit of Welsh. So I explained that I am learning welsh, but I have only been learning for a short time. I then said, in Welsh, that I’d like to speak to the lady. He replied in Welsh, but I had no idea what he said. I said in Welsh that I didn’t understand, and reminded him that I’ve only just started learning Welsh. He tried again, this went round a few times until he finally told me in English that she was deceased. This was a little awkward. I apologised in Welsh, then said in English that I’d leave it at that. He seemed to be wishing me well with my Welsh in Welsh, then said goodbye (which I think he used “hwyl”, for). Now I felt really awkward because I wasn’t sure if I should say goodbye by saying “hwyl”, because doesn’t it also mean “fun”? So I finished by saying goodbye in English.
Does anyone have any insight as to whether “hwyl” would have been an appropriate way of saying goodbye?
“Hwyl” is a very common and very natural way of saying goodbye. 
Awkward situation, but absolutely brilliant use of Welsh - huge congratulations! 
Now that is odd, hwyl is a bit like ´cheers´ or ´cheerio´ in English, so I thought there might be an older, more ´serious´ way of saying ´goodbye´, which I think in English comes from ¨God be with you¨. Indeed this is exactly what Cornish uses: Duw genowgh hwi. Likewise the formal goodbye in Gaelic is beannach leibh ´blessing(s) to you´. Is there anything like this still ´available´ in Modern Welsh? What does the minister say to his departing congregation, for instance?
No, it’s not odd. It’s far better to think of “hwyl” as being like “hwyl” in Welsh. Much more widely used than eg “cheerio”. Trying to get exact translations is very rarely helpful.
But “Da bo”, “Da boch”, (“da boch chi”) as alternatives. Ffarwel very literary if you are looking for that sort of thing.
I don’t know what a minister would say to his congregation in English, and I don’t know what one would say in Welsh, so can’t help you there I’m afraid. But remember that such things are never going to be exact equivalents.
Remember that putting words into boxes created for words in another language usually results in a very bad fit.
Of course, how could I have forgotten da boch chi, odd how things sometimes slip your mind completely.
No, I was wondering, given the earlier post here, how you would politely say ´goodbye´ to someone who had just suffered a serious loss, where ´have fun´ however conventional, would to say the least be very insensitive, and something more sober and formal would be needed. And while I agree that there are never perfect correlations between languages, nevertheless, languages in close contact and used by people in similarly structured societies, do on the whole tend to evolve in parallel.
You obviously - for some reason- have firm opinions of your own on how “hwyl” is used, and how people think of it. I was simply doing my best to help someone such as yourself who patently has little or no contact with Welsh speakers, and who asked me a question directly.
Thus is getting a bit tiring for me. I don’t have any inclination to get in to a long drawn out to and froing about this - it doesn’t seem to be appreciated by you, and it certainly isn’t doing me my good. if what I have already said has not helped you, please ask someone else.
The closest I have come to this (original post not “hwyl”) was witnessed on-line. Someone asked what sort of song Ar Hyd a Nos is classified as. A dysgwr originally from Cardiff responded that the question was another example of people trying to appropriate Welsh culture for themselves and that too many people lay claim to “our culture”. He transpires that he had chosen to emigrate to Australia after spending time in the Navy (which I can only assume was surrounded by people from lots of areas of the U.K. With a high likelihood that his place of origin was seen as “fair game” for “banter” - not a position I support). So, on the whole, I imagine it harks back to the underlying emotions developed over time bred from the fact that there are a plethora of historic reasons that only 19% of the population spoke Welsh at the last census. Unfortunately, these emotions have clearly presented themselves in an unhelpful manner among some. Others, like Aran, have taken a far more positive step!
Im proud to say i met a welsh learner when in Germany earlier this year. His motivation was to be able to speak in the Eisteddfod.
He is hoping to go to Nant Gwytheyrn next year.
I think it matters not where you’re from and it certainly doesn’t matter if you’re welsh or not.
Just to touch on, and give my opinion to, the “hwyl” discussion, and to be on the side of @owainlurch, not that, given his excellent knowledge, he needs any help from me.
I’ve always taken “hwyl fawr”, and therefore the shortened “hwyl”, to mean big sail (hwyl, as well as fun, is also the noun sail) therefore as a way of saying farewell, bon voyage, etc. Kind of “may your sail be full” type of thing. So, given that way of thinking, would give “hwyl” a very traditional and polite way of saying “Tara for a bit”.
I’m glad you said that. I’ve been saying “hwyl fawr” for years, but my recently consulted dictionary has it down as “hwyl nawr”. I thought I’d been saying it wrong all this time and everyone had been too polite to tell me!
The very same dictionary has “hwyl fawr” down as the translation from goodbye in English, so does anyone know if the nawr option is a typo, or another variation?
This is an excellent point. Despite knowing that hwyl means sail and fun, whenever I say “hwyl” it literally is “hwyl” and I say it automatically when saying goodbye without considering its meaning in the slightest.
(In fact, it’s so ingrained that my yacht has been sail-less at Bala Marina for 18 months now)
Almost definitely I would say.
i have seen hwyl fawr am nawr, and hwyl am nawr, though never heard them. I suppose hwyl nawr is just like saying “bye now” though again never heard it.
But i am in the north and as we all know nawr is backwards…like those in the south 
Da boch chi is quite posh isn’t it. Most people I know in English and Welsh just say ta ra or maybe i Welsh something like wela i ti wedyn. Very rarre for me to say goodbye in English except on the phone
I agree. That´s probably why da boch chi had slipped my mind. However the formal farewell is there for those (serious?) occasions when a airy ´ta-raa!´ would be inappropriate.
Cerainly is in my experience, for what that’s worth - absolutely! I normally hear “da bo” as the version of that. Like you, I certainly hear “wela’ ti” very often, (wela i ti/wela i ti wedyn/n fuan/ yma nos wener) whatever. I - myself - do hear the various versions of hwyl at least as often in all sorts of circumstances.
Yes, now you mention it, I would very rarely say “goodbye” to someone except on the phone, either- hadn’t thought of that.
The main thing is I didn’t want anyone to start worrying overly about whether they should use “hwyl” because it is too casual. I’d certainly use “Bye” to people who had recently suffered a bereavement, such things depend on your attitude and everything else you do (or don’t) say rather than the use of one particular word, and learners have enough to worry about.
But as always, it is great to be corrected on the matter- the alternative is living in ignorance!
Rwtsh! You could help (and help) anybody, and I certainly need and welcome your help - especially a well known enthusiast of “hwylio” such as yourself.
Absolutely! Hwyl fawr, pob hwyl, hwyl am y tro, or any combination or variation thereof uses “hwyl” as meaning “hwyl”.
[ One of those words that has passed into the English round here. “Do it with a bit of hwyl, boys!” Covering something like enthusiasm (and other things!) as well. Though how such words are used in English is never an absolute guide to their use in Welsh, translating it as just ‘fun’ just sounds to me so… insipid! (and I love the English language!)]
But as jamesmahoney says, in this instance it is just a word used in that situation.
As Petermescall says, you can hear “hwyl nawr”, but I’m not sure why a dictionary should put that and not hwyl fawr, as it were. “Hwyl fawr” is fine and dandy, anyway, as Gruntius said. No one thought you were wrong using it!
The context I think I hear goodbye the most I think is when someone says to someone else have you said goodbye and the same in Welsh wyt ti wedi gweud da bo etc