Thank you for your excellent post, Matilda, with which I agree strongly.
I think there are two keys to successful text-based communication - one is being more overt than usual - using smilies (although they can feel silly sometimes, they leave little doubt about the intended tone), using extra ‘politeness’ markers, that sort of stuff.
The other is believing in everyone else’s positive intentions - that they want to be friendly, want to be liked, want to be a part of the community.
Of course, that sort of stuff is exactly what we usually see in this community, which is a joy…
I have just become aware of this issue and thread thanks to Dee’s invaluable newsletter. I have just speed-read all the 41 posts and would liked to have “liked” them all but don’t have the time. I would just like to pay special tribute to @CatrinLliarJones for her own moving, personal post
I am immensely relieved to find I am far from being alone in my concern for the occasional departure from the look, feel and supportive spirit of this wonderful (possibly unique) forum. In fact I “voted with my feet” for nearly a year as a result of my concern.
I have grown to have absolute trust in Aran’s steady, guiding hand and this has been fully confirmed by his initial post, actions and all the responses.
People who know me will never describe me as a Pollyanna. My family will even call me a grumpy old reggub. I still hold strong, political views and have been rabidly active in the not-so-distant past, but I treasure this forum as a refuge from all that and an invaluable source of support and encouragement towards our shared linguistic goals. What more do we need?
Hmmm … I just wanted to do that in the first place as I could almost recite every word you’ve written without reading it BUT no! “Let it be there as that little reminder which knocks on your conscience every time you want to “blurt” something out!” I’ve said to myself so it remains for me where it is …
Diolch pawb.
Well, to be honest, all we - Slavs - are a bit like that and yes, I’m realizing this was (or maybe it still is, I don’t know) obviously my main problem … We as nation(s) can be quite tempered but I’m (was) not the worst of “my” kind, believe me.
Thank you @Matilda for this post. And … well, I only now realize I’ve missed you here (or I do not read the right topics to see you on board. ) . Welcome back.
Yah … and I’ve beaten myself for a long time feeling guilty of not to see you on here for a long time … I’m glad you decided to come back otherwise I’d never meet you and we wouldn’t “cruise around” Eisteddfod.
I assured you explicitly by PM that you, personally, had no cause to feel guilty. I hope you believe me now. Our Eisteddfod perambulation was special to me, too.
This is the exact trouble I have with conversation a lot of times! I’ve been considered rude when I always just thought I was getting to the point and never mean it in a bad way. It took me a long time to figure out that direct isn’t always appreciated. I’m not Russian, but I can relate anyway.
I think part of the issue is that text based discussions have very little indicators in the way of tone, so often directness can be read as abruptness or even aggressiveness. It’s the big problem with medium transfers. I’ve learned to alter my wording to sound more polite, and when all else fails, smileys are pretty clear.
You have made a very interesting and important point, @Matilda. It’s certainly true in my own experience!
I was born in South Africa and grew up in the former Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe). My mother tongue is English. When I settled in England 37 long years ago, I found that my communication style differed quite a bit from the “natives”. I found them to be a bit like your Japanese - talked “around” a subject and frustratingly, took forever to get to the point. Whereas they found me like your Russians - blunt and “call a spade a spade”, sometimes to the point of rudeness.
I was horrified when it was pointed out to me how I was coming across - my upbringing always put great store by straight talking, honesty and “what you see is what you get”. It took me a while to change my ways - these things don’t happen overnight .But I honestly feel that all these years later, I’ve become 90% “English” in the way I communicate. I’ve become so thoroughly “de-tribalised” that I now feel that the “English” way is the “correct” way…to the extent that I find my ex-countrymen a bit “Russian” (in the sense that you describe).
The advantage of verbal communication, of course, is that you can more often than not tell from a person’s accent that they originally come from “somewhere else” - and make allowances accordingly. This doesn’t apply with electronic communication such as forums!
There is an interview with Michael Sheen in which he mentions social media turning into exchange of insults instead of sensible discussion-
It is a shame if folk get so worried about seeming rude that discussion is prevented and exchange of views cut off. That can lead to frustration. In the world at large - we get Brexit votes and D J Trump, here we could get people leaving the Forum, which, surely, would be sad?
I don’t think the issue is so much with avoiding discussions for fear of being rude, it’s just about learning to write in such a way that doesn’t sound aggressive. But of course, it cuts both ways - I think we all have to realise that the tonelessness of text based communication can make others come across in ways they don’t intend, and give them the benefit of the doubt. Knee jerk reactions don’t help anyone.
It is a shame if folk get so worried about seeming rude that discussion is prevented and exchange of views cut off. That can lead to frustration. In the world at large - we get Brexit votes and D J Trump, here we could get people leaving the Forum, which, surely, would be sad?
Sorry, I don’t understand, but I am feeling a little slow this morning. You may prefer to PM me what you mean - or not, of course.
I’m sure you are not slow, it must be me who hasn’t expressed myself clearly. What M Sheen says is that on social media, people can end up very rude, which we all agree is a bad thing. He says we need proper discussion, and if someone says something with which we disagree or don’t seem to understand, we need to discuss it calmly and this may end up with a change of opinions, or a compromise or a friendly agreement to differ. Not discussing is as bad as rudeness, because the understanding never happens, the friendliness is lost just as much if folk turn away from discussion as if they shout or are rude to each other. I don’t think anyone on this forum is deliberately rude to anyone else, it is all intended as friendly, but if discussion just stops, maybe the friendliness is lost too? I don’t think I have the words to expain any better. Truly sorry.
Partly for that sort of reason, I think it should be standard practice for people to put their location (country), and perhaps native language, in their profile, to give a bit more context, especially in a language-oriented forum. However, what with modern concerns about privacy, coupled with unfamiliarity with the technical aspects of a forum that is new to one, it tends not to happen.
In 7 years, I haven’t seen that happen on the forum. The only thing I’ve seen happen (VERY occasionally) is people who aren’t willing to make the unusual effort (for the internet) to be pointedly polite and friendly in the their discussions - and those people eventually have to leave us.
But we have hosted deep and interesting discussions on a number of thorny topics over the years - and the only thing necessary for that to continue to happen is for people to understand that (especially for thorny topics) they need to contribute with overt friendliness and respect for the other person. When that happens, everything else is okay.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply @henddraig
I just couldn’t follow your link between not being rude and “brexit” and “he-who-shan’t-be named.”
I agree, of course, that disgreements and misunderstandings can and should be resolved by discussion, but I much prefer to do this face to face. In my long experience of using the internet and its precursors, I have very rarely found that issues can be resolved or clarified via digital media. (Witness this post )
I have far more often seen prejudices reinforced, hatred promoted and inanity amplified. (Which, to my mind, is more likely to lead to disastrous voting)
I fully realise that my opinion is not shared by everyone or perhaps anyone, and I realise also that my jealous view of this forum as a haven from contention may well be a minority one. If I’m in too small a minority, I’ll do the honourable thing … again
No, it’s not - it’s the majority view, and it’s the management view too, and it’s how things will be…
We’ve always tried to make room for a wide range of discussions - but the bottom line for us is that this is a support forum for Welsh learners, and no discussion in here is more important than that.
To the extent that people can discuss matters in a calm and friendly manner, showing respect for everyone involved in the discussion, and making it all clear enough to get over the ‘text only’ barrier, we’ll continue to host and enjoy those discussions.
But we do not see them as a primary focus of this community, and we will not risk any of the core values of the community in order to allow discussions which fail to maintain these unusually high standards.
I would just like to pay special tribute to 
)