There used to be a Crws 3 forum thread in the Old, old forum but I can’t find an equivalent thread in the new, new one. Can anyone help me? I’m finally getting to grips with Cwrs 3 and wondered how other people have found it? Thanks in advance. Jan
Hi Jan, “if you build it, they will come.”
Just start a thread here to chat about course 3 experiences and I’m sure people will tell you all you need or would like to know.
As Geraint says Jan, all you need to do is post your questions in a new thread This new forum (Discourse) does not have sub-forums. There are some fixed “tags” that make it look a little bit like it does (General Questions, Bootcamp, Events/Meetups), so I understand your confusion!
There are lots of people on the forum who have finished Cwrs 3 who will be only to happy to help you as much as possible, myself included, so please post your questions so that we can assist!
In Gwers 10 mohoni fi etc. Is introduced, but there doesn’t appear to be any explanation. Can anyone explain this pattern? Diolch!
When the short forms were introduced, I seem to recall weles i in particular, the little word mo was also introduced, to be used instead of dim to form the negative(1) when talking about a specific thing (the dog rather than a dog, the answer rather than an answer) like this
Weles i ddim ci - I didn’t see a dog
Weles i mo’r ci - I didn’t see the dog
Weles i ddim ateb - I didn’t see an answer
Weles i mo’r ateb - I didn’t see the answer
Mohono fi is the personal form of mo used with the pronoun “me” like this
Welest ti mohono fi - you didn’t see me
This is the same kind of thing you see with am having personal forms like amdani fi, amdatat ti, amdani, ayyb.
Hope that helps
(1) although we are told that colloquially, we sometimes hear people saying Weles i ddim mo’r ci
just to add to what Stu says, the form actually comes from dim o,
Welais i ddim o’r ci > welais i 'mo’r ci > welais i mo’r ci.
Then, the pronoun “o” is used in its personal forms with pronouns.
welais i ddim ohono fe > welais i 'm ohono fe > welais i mohono fe.
The “mo” appears in a negative sentence when dealing with (as stu) says, a ‘specific’ noun-
eg “the house, David, them, my hat” rather than eg “a house, a man, men, a hat”.
There’s a much better explanation of this by TelBoy on this thread of the old forum -
Hello Jan, thanks for starting this thread. I started Course 3 yesterday and I must admit my first reaction on being faced with the short form was ‘what fresh hell is this?’ but then initially I felt equally as confused at the start of course 2 and yet I survived. I suspect that when I’m chatting to people I’ll stick to the long form for the moment until I’m absolutely sure I know what I’m doing with the short form but I’m going to listen out for it more in conversation/on the radio & TV to see if I can recognise it.
For a lot of practice using some of the short forms naturally in sentences, I strongly recommend the new Level 1 course. It introduces several short form verbs in a very relaxed and natural way, and is fantastic even for people doing course 3!
Hi Stu, yes, that was what prompted me into course 3, tbh! I got as far as challenge 8 on the new level 1 and wanted a bit more ‘background’ on the short form, so decided to go straight to course 3 (do not pass Go or collect £200) and bob back to new lessons as and when. As you say, v useful practice. cheers, J
Thanks, that actually made me laugh out loud
Happy to oblige
I am just starting course 3 and am delighted that this thread is alive
I dont have any questions right now and am 100 pro cent confident that there are loads coming.
Thanks for the support people who are willing to reply.
Many thanks for your reply. I’m ashamed to say I’ve only just read your response. I thought I’d subscribed to the thread, but didn’t receive any notifications.
I’m now on Uned 21 and very slowly getting to grips with the short form verbs! Will definitely need to revisit earlier units when I reach the end! Or perhaps I’ll go back to the new Level 1 course as you suggest!
What a shame there is no place to practice speaking them with other Cwrs 3 learners on SSiW!
Hwyl am y tro! Jan
Great to hear from others doing course 3. (Am on lesson 14)
Wow! Haven’t had to think so much or so quickly in a long time. I think SSIW must be the best way for dementia prevention yet invented!
Good luck to fellow course 3 people.
I do have a question. We’ve been told a few short forms of things, and I notice that the practice sentences might start off with a short form, but the second half of the sentence is the long form, though we have not been introduced to the short form version of the words in the second half. Wow that sentence sounds like one of the long convoluted sentences we have to practice. Anyway, in normal Welsh speech do people mix and match their short and long forms in the same sentence, or do they do it consistently short, or long?
Hi Polly, you’ll find that all forms are used, mixed and matched in speech. A good way to experience stuff like this is by listening to Radio Cymru and/or watching S4C, have you started doing that?
Most importantly, both forms will be understood throughout Wales!
In the south of Wales, people will tend to use the short forms.
Quite a strong tendency, too!
“Nes i neuding” everything is seen round here as quite northern thing, as it were
In the north of Wales, people tend to use the long form, as far as I can tell (but I live in the South!)
But [discounting if and where you draw the line ] everyone in the southern part of Wales will use “nes i” for some verbs, and everyone in the Northern part of Wales will use the short form for some verbs, and it will differ from person to person.
(like what louis says!)
Hope that helps…
[Paradoxically, around here in the South of Wales, when speaking English many people will use “I did like that” or something similar as a perfectly normal alternative for “I liked that”. (the equivalent of the different Welsh forms in English). Even “he does do that” and similar, so I have never been thrown by the alternative uses in Welsh - I’m sure that doesn’t help, but might be mildly interesting…]
Veering a bit off topic (sorry, all).
Growing up, my family spoke a different dialect of English from most of the people in the area that, I’m finding out now, appears to be an artifact of our Welsh heritage. We said/say things such as “I did like that”. It was strongest in my Grandad’s generation, who grew up before radio/television and all attended the local one-room schoolhouse. I’d always wondered where it’d come from. My family left the southern part of Wales for America about 400 years ago, but it’s unclear when they stopped speaking Welsh. It’d be interesting to try to track that down someday. In the meantime, it’s nice to have one of the things that made me “strange” as a child explained AND make learning Welsh a bit easier!
Louis and Owen
Thank you, Yes I do listen to Radio Cymru, but just feel lucky when I know what they’re talking about, and not thinking too much about their grammar. Okay, I’ll just relax and mix and match my shorts and longs.
For what it’s worth, on “Rownd a Rownd” (made and set in Ynys Môn), I notice short forms being used at least for the more common verbs.