Hi all,
I want to learn Welsh as I am from the border counties (Shropshire) and would love to learn and speak (or at least understand) welsh when I go over the border. I mentioned this to a friend and she said if I thought learning welsh as an english person was cultural misappropriation and should I be learning it - considering how much the language is a big part of welsh cultural identity.
I don’t think learning french is being culturally disrespectful to french people so Im not sure that it would apply to welsh?
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Surely more welsh speakers (from anywhere!) is a good thing? Does the 1 million welsh speakers project only want to focus on native-welsh people?
I’d love to learn welsh but I don’t want to be insensitive to welsh people! Any help?
Hi Sarah, I’m an extremely patriotic Welsh person and I would absolutely love you to learn Welsh. Please don’t listen to your friend. Learning the language of a country you are visiting is a respectful thing to do and I only wish more people would do it. Just don’t mention popty ping or pysgod wibli-wobli and I think we’ll be fine.
If you want to go a step further by learning a bit of Welsh history including about the Welsh Not maybe you can teach your friend a thing or two on the reason behind the language almost dying out.
I completely agree - it’s not disrespectful at all. Why would it be? I know plenty of English (not to mention Swiss, Australian and Argentinian) people who are learning Welsh. The more people speaking Welsh, the better, wherever they’re from.
Don’t let your friend (or anyone else) decide for you whether you learn Welsh or any other language.
Re: the million speakers project, the (previous) Welsh government was really only focused on learners in Wales and I firmly believe that learners outside Wales (and the Welsh diaspora generally) are largely ignored to the detriment of Cymry everywhere.
However, once again, I wouldn’t let that affect your decision to learn the language - there’s a whole new world of history and culture waiting for you, not to mention all the new people you will meet. That, for me, has been the most rewarding aspect of learning Welsh.
As an English Welsh learner who also has the temerity to help others learn Welsh… That’s a big ‘Hell, no!’ from me. Learning Welsh is not cultural misappropriation.
The language needs all the support and speakers it can get, and it doesn’t matter who they are or where they are from. A language lives or dies based on how many people use it in everyday life, and it doesn’t matter one bit if you’re Welsh or not – if you’re learning and then using the language, that’s awesome.
The vast, vast majority of Welsh speakers I talk to are happy that I’m learning and helping others, and they don’t care that I’m English.
Forgive the two cents of this Texan American. As I understand it, most English people are largely a genetic mixture of Anglo-Saxon and the Brittonic celts. Therefore, from my perspective, learning Welsh (or Cornish, or Breton) is a great way to explore that part of The English identity that often gets forgotten or ignored (while, of course, being sensitive not to claim the language or culture as “yours”).
I’m certainly open to being corrected by those more knowledgeable than myself on this subject.
British genetics is complicated – Britons, Picts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, Danes, Normans, not to mention all the other people who’ve come here through trade, family or for any other reason over the last 1000 years.
In my opinion Welsh, Cornish and Scots Gaelic should be seen as a shared heritage for everyone in the UK, but it’s best not to get it tied up with genetics.
People who feel as though their languages are under threat can sometimes respond in negative ways - language threat often overlaps with economic weakness and the weakening of social bonds (young speakers needing to leave areas because of a lack of economic opportunity and so on). Sometimes this manifests in ‘language purity’ discourse around ‘correctness’, sometimes it manifests in exclusionary talk around cultural ownership - I’ve never yet seen any examples of this kind of behaviour contributing to greater usage for a language (and I’ve seen plenty of examples of it causing damage).
This is much, much less of an issue in Wales now than it might have been forty or fifty years ago. We have a very strong cultural discourse around the value of learners.
Personally, I’m always particularly delighted when I hear of English people in the borders choosing to become Welsh speakers - it would have been a very common thing a few hundred years ago, and it seems to me like a particularly good sign that the language is in an increasingly healthy position - so thank you very much for learning
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies.
Not that one needs a reason to want to learn a language, but you have all given some really good reasons that next time I can use, rather than ‘because I’ve always wanted to learn it’ or ‘I think Welsh is a cool language to learn because it has such ancient roots to the land I live on’ etc.
Thanks
Sarah
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Or even 20 years ago. I was given a very, very hard time at the Eisteddfod by the organisers of the Pabell y Dysgwyr at Tyddewi, to the point where I’ve not been to an Eisteddfod since because it was genuinely that upsetting. And I copped some shit from Yr Academi Gymraeg back then too.
So those people have always existed and probably will always exist. But they are absolutely not representative of Welsh speakers in general who have been nothing but marvellous when they find out I’m learning Welsh.
These days I’m much more of the mind that if someone’s going to give me a hard time about learning Welsh, it says a lot more about them than me.
I am so sorry to hear about your experiences at the Eisteddfod, Sue - what a dreadful thing to happen! And in the learners’ area too! I can remember my own first Eisteddfod in 2017, and how incredibly nervous I felt (expecting people to be cross with me for invading “their” space). But everyone was really lovely and welcoming, and I suspect (hope!) that is the norm now.
One quick question, when you mention “Yr Academi Gymraeg” was that an actual thing? (If so, tell me more!) Or are you just referring to the Usual Suspects who are self-appointed gatekeepers? (If so, yes - I think we’ve all copped a bit of that shit from time to time…) If it’s any consolation, I don’t think any of them are in a position of authority - they are all standing outside lobbing the shit in. No one I know in any of the big Welsh institutions (the government, the Canolfan Dysgu Cymraeg, the Eisteddfod, the Urdd…) behaves like that (any more?)
I am sure that the Eisteddfod is more welcoming now, and maybe one day I’ll go back, but honestly, even the thought of it makes me tense up.
The Academi stuff was so long ago that I might have got the name wrong, but it was a Welsh language organisation that I was trying to engage with, with the aim of providing Welsh language content online, and they weren’t having any of it. Just phenomenally, aggressively rude.
But as I said, the vast, vast majority of people are very welcoming, and I think that’s improving as we see the number of learners grow. If you’re a learner, you understand what other learners are going through and, hopefully, are more supportive.
Wasn’t Cymdeithas, but some organisatin like that.
And whilst it didn’t derail me in the long run, I stopped learning for several years because of it. But I’m older and more stubborn now so less likely to be thrown off balance by people like that!
