Hi all! Here is the thread for the new story series! The original (by yours truly and penned for your eyes only!) is in Welsh, and then there is an English version, that I wouldn’t call a translation as much as a… well, a version! I’ve tried to translate as best I can while not losing too much of the feel of the way the original was written. It might take a few episodes - and your feedback! - to get that right, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated as ever.
Many thanks as usual; not too long but still quite a bit of vocabulary and syntax to get one’s head round! One construction puzzles me a bit: ‘Weithiau, cai Enfys ei ‘sgubo ar don o emosiwn yr enedigaeth neu’r briodas neu’r farwolaeth yr oedd hi’n delio a hi y diwrnod hwnnw’, which is translated as ‘Sometimes, Enfys was swept away on a wave of emotion because of the birth, marriage or death that she was dealing with in that particular day’. Shouldn’t there be something in the Welsh to correspond to the ‘because of’ in the English e.g an ‘achos’ before ‘yr enedigaeth’, or is one to take ‘yr enedigaeth’ as being a sort of genitive construction that implies the causation?
And a couple of small points: in the transcript, first paragraph, ‘argaff’ should be ‘argraff’. And in the penultimate paragraph, is ‘yr un un cofrestydd’ slightly different – more emphatic perhaps? – than just saying ‘yr un cofrestydd’?
Hi there, and many thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail.
The points you raise - apart from the typo, well spotted! - is the way both languages are used differently. In Welsh you can be swept on a wave of a certain emotion and the event It refers to is that emotion, as opposed to the emotion being because of the event.
You’re right about ‘yr un un’ - it’s emphasis, like ‘the exact same’ or ‘the very same’ is more emphasised than ‘the same’.
The feedback on these will be interesting, because literature is far harder to translate in the traditional sense than spoken Welsh.
You’ll probably tune in to the style of writing as time goes on.
Many thanks for your comments.
Yep, I found this pretty tough…I managed to accumulate a reasonable picture by listening a couple of times but the details were poor in some areas…a bit like going back a few months
I find things that have been written down and then read out very hard still - they have been tweaked and nurtured for interest level which means by definition almost they are ‘out of the ordinary’.
( This happens to me most mornings when ‘munud I feddwl ‘ (thought for day) comes on to Post Cyntaf - my understanding level plummets! )
Working through the transcript there are the usual collection of: couple of words I don’t remember knowing ; different Welsh word (N) to the one I know ; short forms which are not the ones I’d use; abbreviated words; and this time the odd literary thing for good measure!
All very interesting and stretches that knowledge level just a bit further in a slightly different direction…
I’ve kept them short to compensate for them being tough! It’s the difference between a more crafted use of language as opposed to what is spoken I suppose. And yes, Munud i Feddwl is crafted, written down and read out as opposed to being an interview.
It’s good too have these responses as I now know not to make it any more literary than it is! I’ll go through the episodes I’ve written and check that there isn’t anything too writer-y in there!
To be honest, I find I tune into these things - I have read many books where the first three chapters have been a nightmare and then suddenly the brain clicks and everything is fine
There is something about the literary things coming over in speech - which just seems odd - which is just my inexperience…and I think that usually means you need more doesn’t it!?
I think whatever you throw at us - it’s all good - more experience.
My first impression is that this series is way less of a shocking jump from SSiW challenges, than the interviews (except, probably, the Stori Dwy Steddfod series).
Reading @rich’s comment makes me wonder why it is so: I find reading in general very difficult and I hardly ever read anything, so if this is more literary, it would be more logical for me to find it harder to understand.
My average understanding at first listen is more or less the same as the interviews, that being mostly of Northern Welsh speakers, featured less familiar accent and expressions anyway.
I’m usually able to understand the main topics, but often fail to figure out the exact connections:
in this case I thought it was the story of the protagonist’s family, while it turned out it was mostly other people’s lives and families instead!
Maybe it’s the fact that Beca speaks very unusually slowly , the sound is very clear, and they don’t jump around a whole lot of different topics.
And definitely also the fact it’s a short clip: so I don’t struggle so hard to keep my attention focused for 20-30 minutes listening and several pages reading - then making seem way more doable “working” on transcriptions and translations (like: reading them side by side, which is the best for me to learn new vocabulary and expressions; re-listening while reading, which helps me a lot remembering words and spellings etc.)
The only note I would add, remembering the Audio books + transcriptions I recently read, is that I wish there were more direct speech here.
I’ve found it very effective: they have both advantages of being built with more colloquial expressions (that are also useful to remember for later use), and a slower pace and clarity of reading rather than 2 fluent speakers chatting full speed!
Oh there is more dialogue in future eps, fear not! This is more of a scene setter. I am dialogue mad…
I made a special effort to speak slowly - da iawn fi! (Pats back…!) - and I had taken advice from Jeff our technician on the sound.
Hope you enjoy the series as it develops…
Hi folks! Another ep is up! Some dialogue this time…
These are very interesting for me - the story is just a smidge more literary and descriptive and this means I don’t get it all…if I read through the Welsh it’s like a magic trick - listen to it again and there it is …100%
I have just recently gone back to reading fiction - I paused to focus on reading ‘factual’ news reports instead to crack the Radio Cymru nut - which has worked well…hooray!
…and having gone back, I have really noticed that it’s the extra descriptive parts, plus a bit of literary Welsh thrown in which are the bits where I need to look something up or work through to fully understand…
…so these snippets involve listening to fictional text…which is right on my weak spot…which is therefore absolutely perfect !
Fantastic - I’m hoping to develop this side of things and do some simple audio drama with 2/3 characters.
Did you give ‘Mair’ by Manon Steffan Ros a try? It was on Radio Cymru over Christmas and I know @gruntius really enjoyed it.
Ooo - no I didn’t - I’ll have a look to see if I can download them.
Having read a few books by MSR I am fully expecting this listen to be ‘not entirely straightforward’!..but for the same reason as above - all the more reason to give it a go.
It’s on BBC Sounds for 3 more days - yikes!
Go go go!!!
It’s quite straightforward tbh - a modern day version of the nativity. I think you’ll be ok with it.
The idea of having a top up on the gas for an Xmas present (whilst a very thoughtful one) , food banks and being on hold on universal credit…goodness, goodness, goodness.
Mair has a lovely voice (listened on headphones) and an accent you could cut yourself a slice from…also lovely
Thank you for pointing me in the direction of this…
Just listened twice to the second part without looking at the transcript. Chuffed to say that, second time round, I followed almost all of it. Progress!
It’s so sad isn’t it. Interesting you mention the accent - the girl playing Mair is from Llanrug, so listening to me witter on has probably prepared you well for that!
But a fantastic piece by the wonderful MSR.
…well do you know…I did wonder that…we have had a bit of coaching on the Llanrug accent haven’t we - one way or another - and it crossed my mind.
Yes, MSR is a real talent, everything I’ve read by her just grabs you - I was quite blown away by Llyfr Glas Nebo - definitely one of the best books I’ve ever read, regardless - wow.
I’ve just finished a couple of short stories by her too at the other end of the scale…a real, natural talent.
It’s amazing the Cymraeg talent there is out there…‘just behind that door’ all along - when you finally get around to opening it!
Episode no. 3 is up, folks… hope you enjoy