Bod vs Bo fi Challenge 4

On challenge for but a little confused by the interchanging all of a sudden between bo fi and bod dal?

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The simple part is that ā€œdalā€ is ā€œstillā€, as in ā€œI still needā€. Thatā€™s why it appears in some sentences and not others - it depends on whether youā€™re saying ā€œI stillā€.

Thereā€™s more I wanted to say about the ā€œbod dalā€ thing but Iā€™m struggling to explain it clearly, so I gave up. :sweat_smile:

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Yes Iā€™m just a bit confused that ā€œthat I stillā€¦ ā€œis not bo fi dalā€ as we were taught previously that ā€œ that Iā€ was bo fi

I get a bit frustrated that they change whole words and add in new ones without ever explaining how and why

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Iā€™m not doing northern @sianelagreen, but is it to do with the word youā€™re constructing with?
As mae dal rhaid i mi is introduced in challenge 4 - and the construction with rhaid is different - checking, looks like where above is introduced is around 3:48 into challenge.

Having had a quick listen, you hear the construction youā€™re expecting a lot in the challenge - then you hear at 25:12ā€¦ā€˜I think that Iā€™ve still got to improveā€™ - which uses rhaid, hence the different construction Dw iā€™n meddwl bod dal rhaid i mi wella . Itā€™s the same construction you learnt about near the start of the challenge with rhaid, with the i mi at the end. It always has that different construction.

Hope this helps - though sure someone else can explain it better for you!

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Yes, thatā€™s exactly what I was having trouble trying to explain!

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Iā€™ll try this:

I think youā€™re listening to the bit that goes ā€œDwiā€™n meddwl bod dal rhaid i miā€¦ā€

If you remember, when Aran introduced ā€œrhaid i miā€ he mentioned that a literal translation would be ā€œthere is a must for meā€. Thatā€™s why thereā€™s no ā€œfiā€ in ā€œDwiā€™n meddwl bod dal rhaid i miā€. The ā€œfiā€ is where you say ā€œIā€ (I want, I need, I speak, etc). But in ā€œrhaid i miā€ youā€™re not actually saying ā€œI mustā€, youā€™re saying ā€œthere is a mustā€. So no ā€œfiā€, because no ā€œIā€.

Does that make sense?

Exceptā€¦in Southern course itā€™s actually ā€œMa dal rhaid i fiā€!
I guess thatā€™s a regional preference.

However for @sianelagreen doubts: I believe that SSiW works much like learning straight from people rather than in school. Like mother tongue. I canā€™t explain why use one thing here and the other thing there, but I know which one is right.
And I can tell it works!

But of course whenever one feels the need to understand better, itā€™s fair to ask and you always get answers here (you can also try a search in the forum, to start with or have a look at this thread:

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If I understand your question right, the structure hasnā€™t changed though. ā€œthat Iā€ is still ā€œbo fiā€
Itā€™s just a matter of word order in sentences, about where to put ā€œdalā€ (still)ā€¦because thatā€™s just how it goes in Welsh language!

Was that your doubt?

p.s. if not, I guess it would be easier to answer if you write the whole sentences, to understand the difference thatā€™s confusing you!

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Yes, must be a regional thing. Either way, though, the ā€œmeā€ in that sentence is an indirect object rather than the subject, which is the structural difference thatā€™s causing it to be confusing for sianelagreen I think.

Itā€™s amazing how well that works, isnā€™t it? :slightly_smiling_face: You start to ā€˜feelā€™ whether something is right or not, and when to mutate, etc.

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Ah Alan and Ann spot on that was where my confusion was and Alan you explained it perfectly. You forget that it uses a different construction to English in that it isnā€™t really saying I must. Trying to remember this and spotting it may be more of a challenge!

Thank you both for taking the time to reply to me

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Youā€™re welcome! It will start to make sense, honest. A lot of the time you actually donā€™t need to understand the mechanical side of why something is phrased differently - it will just go into your head eventually.

I completely sympathise with wanting to understand it though! Itā€™s something I still struggle with. Iā€™ve just run into one in the challenge Iā€™m on. Iā€™m trying not to let it drive me up the wall. :sweat_smile:

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Something @siaronjames said seems apt here (substitute ā€˜constructionsā€™ for ā€˜wordsā€™)ā€¦

Some words - even frequently used ones - can often seem like theyā€™re never going to stick, but over time they willā€¦ although you maybe wonā€™t notice because by then theyā€™ll have been replaced by other words which seem like theyā€™re never going to stickā€¦ and so on!

So donā€™t worry - you havenā€™t fallen off the wagon at all - youā€™ve just gone over a bump and shifted off the comfy part of the seat, which is a perfectly normal part of the journey!

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I like it.

Iā€™m struggling with the exact same thing and it was suggested that I go into the hangout question session for these early challenges. And you get a chance to use some Welsh too

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I agree. It is a little frustrating when I am really concentrating and get thrown off track. Could do with an explanation.

I like it too and I believe you.

Hi All. You might have sussed the query by now, but if not, I hope that the following summary will be helpful. Sorry if Iā€™m stating the obvious.

As with English, its OK to change the word order around a bit.
As you know -
Bod = That (in this case)
Boā€™ fi = That I
Dal = Still
Rhaid I fi/mi = I must

So,
Boā€™ fi dal = That I still
Bod dal rhaid I fi = That still I must (That I still must)

You donā€™t need ā€œBoā€™ fi dal rhaid I fiā€, as that would be like saying " That I I still must"
:slight_smile:

Thanks John thatā€™s much appreciated