Your problems - learning Welsh or other languages - what are the challenges?

Welsh
#61

A low tech way of coping with a book like Harri Potter is of course simply to have a copy of the English original to hand, readily available (I found one in a Charity shop for pennies, as our old copy had walked).

Kind of like using a parallel text (use of which has a long and fairly distinguished history in language learning) except that of course it’s not actually parallel text so you have to do a bit of juggling.

Can be quite effective, depending on how literal the translation is.

But back to the original questions or some of them:

What are your biggest challenges?

Lack of opportunities to speak to native or very experienced speakers. Maybe the new permanent hangout will help, although you can’t really beat face to face, if that’s at all possible.

What has come closest to stopping you learning?

Thinking that it’s all just too big a mountain to climb. The remedy here I suppose is just to take it one day at a time, one step at a time, and have mini-goals which are achievable.

What makes you think you might not succeed?

As above, plus a shaky memory and dodgy hearing.

Are your main challenges different now to what you felt at the beginning?

Interesting question. I can’t think of anything significant though.

Was there anything that held you back from getting started?

Before SSiW, looking at any book about Welsh grammar just made me think it wasn’t worth the effort of starting. SSiW just banished all those fears for me, and made it possible to think about starting. Avoiding (explicit) grammar is one of the best things about SSi(W). And of course, lots and lots of speaking is the next best thing about SSi(W), because most other systems don’t really get you speaking in quite the same way. Michel Thomas maybe, up to a point. Haven’t tried Pimsleur, but anyway, that’s expensive and I doubt if they do Welsh.

#62

I’m a massive fan of SSIW. I always recommend people in my “traditional” :wink: classes to use the listening and speaking method in conjunction with the CBAC and Language centre courses.

As someone who learnt Welsh as an adult I recognise nearly EVERYTHING that’s been said above.
My first attempt at speaking Welsh “in the wild” was a disaster - being told that “ty’d 'ma” is proper Welsh and “dere 'ma” is inferior" etc.

I then found some sympathetic Welsh speakers who helped me immensely and only corrected me if what I had said was gibberish or rude - I once asked someone “wyt ti eisiau codiad?” “codiad” does not mean “a lift”. Practicing my halting hwntw Welsh was not a good idea in the very very busy siop sglods in Tremadog - they just wanted to get rid of the queue!
In short I developed a thick skin.

If there are weaknesses in SSIW and SSIS I’d suggest:

1 splitting each lesson into 3 parts to make it easier to find the bit you find more challenging.

2 one area where “traditional” lessons are better is the “dialogue” section (in my opinion - feel free to disagree). If some dialogue based listening exercises were created with a written version available (TO BE USED ONLY AFTER COMPLETING THEM AURALLY AND VERBALLY :slight_smile: ) it would help in adjusting to a conversational setting.
learning a story can be a good method too such as this for Spanish
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LEARN-SPANISH-SPEAK-Christoph-Schretzenmayr-ebook/dp/B00DG4TP6C/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1403109555&sr=1-1&keywords=learn+spanish+just+speak+it
or this for Welsh.
www.cadwswn.com

#63

Hi again,

A problem that I’ve just come across is that I’ve just realised that I’ve been hearing some of the sounds wrong … ‘v’ as in ‘very’ where it should be ‘th’ as in ‘the’ or in Welsh spelling I think hearing ‘f’ instead of ‘dd’. I only realised because I getting confused between the ‘b’ and ‘v’ sounds in lessons 6 so looked them up and realised that I was actually getting it wrong in a different part of the word. Also it became apparent yesterday when I was speaking to someone face to face and saw how they made the sound - on the recordings it’s very difficult to distinguish although I understand I will probably get better at this. So I’ve at least been saying the wrong sounds in Welsh for ‘to think’ ‘I will, you will etc’ and also in the ‘not’ part of ‘I will not, you will not etc’. Oh dear! better go back and check over all the lesson notes before I progress any further with my mistakes :slight_smile:

#64

Kate Davies: A problem that I’ve just come across is that I’ve just realised that I’ve been hearing some of the sounds wrong … ‘v’ as in ‘very’ where it should be ‘th’ as in ‘the’ or in Welsh spelling I think hearing ‘f’ instead of ‘dd’.

Kate, most of us have been there and can sympathize! This is where going to look at the written Lesson Guide (available on the same page where you get the lessons) is a help, after you’ve done the lesson. You’ll soon get the hang of what should be a ‘v’ sound, etc.,

#65

Shwmae Kate.
Here, we have discovered the reason why there is no written element in the course (as of yet!).
Because you are comparing what you hear in the lessons to what you see them as written, you are worrying that you’ve learned them wrong… when in fact, you haven’t!
To my ear, there is very little difference between the Welsh ‘f’ (a “v” sound), and ‘dd’ (the voiced “th” sound you hear in words like “this”). So, in “meddwl”, it does sound more like a “v”, only slightly softer. With the word “dim” when softened to “ddim”, I tend not to voice the “dd” so much, so it sounds more like the English “them”. All of these are very subtle, and even my way of pronouncing them might not be strictly correct, yet if you are sounding like what you hear in the lessons, and you are being understood when in real conversations, then there really is nothing to worry about and you will be as close to correct as you can be!
So, as the SaySometninginWelsh motto goes - Don’t Worry!
Hope this helps
:slight_smile:

#66

Thanks Gavin, yes it does help :slight_smile: And I was just thinking this evening that when we learn our first language we don’t use anything written so why should we need to with a second one. We do use the visual facial cues though. When you see people making a v or a th (english versions) sound the shape of the mouth is quite different so maybe I will just pay particular attention when speaking to people face to face. I was also reflecting that as you say - I don’t need to worry too much. Early language learning is by approximation and we get more accurate with time and experience.

Today I discovered that another person I have known for a number of years is a Welsh speaker on the quiet so we exchanged some Welsh sentences over coffee.

It’s an exciting and mind altering journey :slight_smile:

#67

That sounds like a fantastic discovery, Kate - practising over coffee is the second best way to turn into a genuinely confident Welsh speaker.

[Replace the coffee with alcohol and you’ve got the best way…:wink:]

Diolch yn fawr iawn am ymateb difyr, Chris.

If some dialogue based listening exercises were created with a written version available

Wel, digwydd bod… watch this space…:wink: