in the sentence “the oldest told me that you needed something” I’m not sure exactly what they are saying. Is “that you needed something” “bod eisiau rhywbeth yn wyt ti”? because that sounds like it’s still present tense, or is it something different?
I think you may have heard “yn wyt ti” for “arnat ti” - to be fair, they do sound a bit similar!
To say “you needed something” in S Welsh, it’s literally “there is a need on you”, so that’s why it’s “arnat ti” (because the ar has conjugated to the ti = arnat)
Does that make sense?
ok, thanks. I don’t understand what the root of this is. How does it work as a verb? I can’t get it to come up in any conjugation tools. Likewise where do I find out the different options for “on”? I didn’t realise it changed like that!
Yes, eisiau is an odd one, but a general rule is that in Southern Welsh it is usually used to mean “to need” and in Northern Welsh it is usually used to mean “I want”. But because of the “need on you” construction, eisiau is acting like a noun rather then a verb.
I know it’s not an easy one to get your head around to begin with.
hmmm, it is tricky! I think this is my first real roadblock so far!
When you hit a roadblock like this, it’s best not to ponder it too deeply - just try and let the pattern absorb naturally rather than going into the whys and wherefores of the grammar. It will click eventually, so don’t worry about it too much now
So, would you be able to say ddwedodd yr hynaf wrth a i bod ti wedi eisiau rhwybeth ? Or is that all sorts of wrong?!
That (wedi + eisiau) is how you’d say “had wanted” in the North.
If you want to say “had needed” in Southern, you’d still need the construction with “on you”, but because you also need past tense, it would be "“ddwedodd yr hynaf wrtha yr oedd eisiau rhywbeth arnat ti” - the ‘yr’ is the ‘that’ in this construction, ‘oedd’ gives you the past tense and ‘arnat ti’ is the ‘on you’ which makes the ‘eisiau’ read as ‘need’.
You’d need ‘oedd’ rather than ‘wedi’ here because ‘wedi’ is always followed by a verb, but as I said in an earlier post, when eisiau = need, it is acting as a noun, so can’t follow ‘wedi’, but can follow ‘oedd’.
You would still be understood, just that ‘needed’ might be interpreted as ‘wanted’, but then, it’s not a major thing because I doubt it would affect the reply - I’d say you’d probably get to hear what the ‘thing’ was, whether it was needed or wanted!
Hope it’s okay revisiting this thread. Just done challenge 4 level 2 and “arnoch chi” was used (first time I think). I’m not the best educated so verbs, nouns etc don’t mean too much but for example if I was to ask someone “do you need more wine?” Oes eisiau i ti mwy gwin neu oes eisiau mwy gwin arnoch chi?
Mae’n ddrwg ‘da fi os mae hi’n cwestiwn yn dwp. (That right?).
Yes, your second option - use ‘ar’ if the need is ‘a thing’ eg wine, chocolate, ‘some more’.
If ‘an action’ is needed, use ‘i’ eg to run, to hurry, to practice more.
( A very sensible question by the way!)
That really helps, thanks @rich - I’m still struggling with this one too, having just reached the end of lefel 2! That makes it much clearer!
Mae’n ddrwg ‘da fi eto.
Felly oes eisiau i chi fynd nawr? A oes eisiau myw gwin ar arnoch chi?
Would those be right? (Ydy hynny’n cywir?) Is that where the “ar” would be?
Diolch yn fawr iawn @rich.
Yes, those are right - you have a duplicate ‘ar’ which I think is probably a typo (the arnoch chi, meaning ‘on you’, has it covered).
Yeah ill blame it on a typo .
Dyna wedi helpu llawer. Diolch eto @rich.