What’s my name? Do names mutate?

Welsh General / Questions
#1

Bore da ffrindiau,

I know place-names mutate, but do people’s names?

Mine begins with ‘M’ so would that soften to ‘F’ following the same rules as other words?

How about the names of specific brands or products?

Hwyl,
Mari

#2

They used to, but you’d never hear it these days unless someone was playing it for laughs… :slight_smile:

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#3

Gwych Aran, diolch yn fawr!

That saves me an identity crisis when I go on Slack this afternoon. Talking of which, can you believe that a lovely lady who is now a friend, thanks to SSiW, completed the 6-month course last year and lives just a few blocks away from me here in Vancouver? We have promised to talk to each other about a different topic each week on Slack in the late afternoon–our time. She is also coming to Caernarfon at the time of the 10th Anniversary party… amazing!

Hwyl,
Mari

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#4

What an awesome connection! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

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#5

But in many place names, named after Mary, Mair, mother of Christ, the name has mutated to Fair. This is not a direct answer to your question, but an interesting side note.

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#6

Ah, as in LlanfairP’G’ of course!

Does the same happen for other saints’ names when they are adopted into place-names–for example Teilo, Bueno, or Dafydd?

I can see I need a Welsh map of Wales to check this out. Fascinating!

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#7

Yup, it’s pretty common - Caergybi is for Sant Cybi, etc etc… :slight_smile:

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#8

Yes, and lots of Llans. Llandeilo (Teilo), Llandysul (Tysul), Llanfair (Mair), Llanbedr (Pedr).

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#9

Diolch yn fawr iawn Gareth.

I shall look out for some of these, or similar when I visit Wales in May/June.

I had appreciated that place-names and history were intertwined, but I am only gaining a better understanding about how much because of trying to learn when mutations apply to proper nouns.

Hwyl,
Marilyn

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#10

Well what about:

Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a’i chriw

Fagi bring Margaret Thatcher I believe

#11

Generally (!) place names mutate, while personal names don’t. :slight_smile:

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#12

That’s both jocular and derogatory. :slight_smile:

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#13

Thank you again Gareth–I am going to cling to the general rule because I can wrap my mind around that.

I quickly thumbed through ‘Y Beibl Cymraeg Newydd’ and so far confirmed the ‘general rule’ concerning Mair.

Cheers,
Marilyn

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#14

Now, that makes sense… I didn’t see it before because I didn’t know the names… :smiley:

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#15

How about this one—Llantwit Major from Llanilltud Fawr (St. Illtud) That is doubly tricky because it loses a lot in the English version, but quite how poor old Illtud morphed into twit beats me.

My husband is from London and his grandparents were true Cockneys so he knows quite a bit of rhyming slang. Some of it also goes through two iterations because it was intended to be a ‘secret’ language amongst inmates in prison—but try telling that to his gran :shushing_face:

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#16

My eyes are peeled…:wink:

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