What does Wenglish mean?

What does “wenglish” mean?

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It’s a term for “cross between Welsh and English”. It can be used to describe English words that have been ‘Welshified’ e.g. “ordero” instead of “archebu”, or (particularly in South Wales) it can be used to describe Welsh grammar applied to English sentences.

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You might like this link:

http://talktidy.com/

written in the 80s and very much of that time - I used to hear and use most of those back when, but time has moved on and I think some of them are now a bit historic now.

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I have both of the Talk Tidy books and was rather amused to find out things I thought everybody said weren’t actually what everybody said at all!
After all, “I haven’t done it yet, I’ll do it again now” makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? :joy:

And I still catch myself saying a lot of them (when I’m not speaking Welsh of course :wink: ), but I guess I’m also a bit historic now :sweat_smile:

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Of course it does. My Mum used to say that all the time.

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David Jandrell, author of Welsh Valleys Phrasebook and Welsh Valleys Humor, explains more here: http://parallel.cymru/?p=4224

Wenglish is just a concatantion of Welsh English. Principally, it started through first language speakers moving to the South Wales valleys at the turn of the century for work, and learning English.

Like lots of us Welsh learners retain some English sentence order and phrases when we use Welsh, some Welsh structures and sayinsg were carried over into English.

As the following generations spoke only English, and tended to remain rooted in that area, the Wenglish dialect grew, but with sub-dialects per Valley as well.

Rob Lewis gives a comprehensive background in his book Wenglish: http://www.ylolfa.com/products/9781784612764/wenglish-the-dialect-of-the-south-wales-valleys

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Wow thank you.
This is really interesting.:heart_eyes:

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The first link by David Jandrell made me laugh out loud - the bit about explaining where something is and creating a real mystery out of it and not actually saying where it is at all was hilarious.

It can get even more mysterious in my house - I’m very much the posh one in the house and quite often I have no idea at all what I’m supposed to be looking for in the first place - having bad directions is one thing, but the mystery really deepens when you have no idea at all what you’re looking for.

I might get something like “get that thing by there will you” and I’ll obviously answer “what thing by where”, to which the response will obviously be “that by there” and that can go on repeat for quite some time, before either a “for f…k sake, I’ll get it mself” , “for f…k sake, you must be jokin”, “are you deranged or what” or a “you blind or what” pops out.

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In our house everything was put “on the side”. This could be a sideboard, mantlepiece, shelf or any other convenient flat location. I don’t know if this was Wenglish or just us.
Sue

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No, not just you, in our house too - and it’s definitely Wenglish :slight_smile:

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I obviously in the above also forgot to liberally sprinkle in lots of “muns”. Buthere, obviously works better with a mun.

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“on the top” can obviously also mean just about anywhere.

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Lol “That by there mun” sounds like a good title for another book on Wenglish…

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Yes, my wife still uses a lot of Wenglish now. (Aaaagh! I’m doing it as well, now). She didn’t really feel the need to change when we moved from Abertillery to the Fens for a decade, although she did pick up a Fenny twang. So, I cant see things changing now that we are back in Wales :slight_smile:

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That’s good to know. My parents moved to England in the early 1940s but some of their expressions survive to the second and third generation. I haven’t yet met anyone outside the family who eats “wet nellies” though.
Sue

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Having grown up in Mid Powys, I’m surprised how many of these I have picked up. Are not some of them generic British phrases?

Tack, I’ve always used as ‘relevant equipment for’ as in ‘You don’t need to bring anything, I’ve got all the tack’ ‘he’s left all his fishing tack in the boot’. Never in a derogatory sense about the equipment…

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Probably they are by now - us hwntws get everywhere! :wink:

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And they have changed meaning as well it seems. In my family ‘doing the troughing’ was clearing out all the leaves, dead animals etc from the troughing or ‘roof guttering’

Haven’t found a satisfactory link to where the mun comes from - is it like the English “man” - as in Geordie speak. I’ve heard mynd or myned suggested by some as the origin and a Scottish mun, meaning must.

I don’t know about you, but mun doesn’t feel like any of those to me, although it could be one of those who knows.

How about as an idea:

On GPC, there is Myn - meaning “by” with lots of religious, sermon style links, but not sure of the feel or meaning really (or even if its pronounced min or mun, using English spellings).

1703 E. Wynne: BC 76, myn Diawl.

1803 P, myn … Myn duw … Myn fy ffydd.

1703 E. Wynne: BC 29, Myn, myn, myn, eb yr Arglwydd.

Duw and Diawl continued on into Wenglish - what about a myn, which could then have gone rogue in Wenglish.

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I honestly don’t know the derivation, but one possible reason could be that it’s a regional ‘tag’ - a word added to the end of sentences that doesn’t (at least by now) necessarily have any meaning. Bala has ‘wa’, Bangor has ‘aye’, Mostyn has ‘nai’, the Valleys have ‘mun’… but I do like the theory of “a myn going rogue in Wenglish” :smiley:

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