Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

Happy you got the map, and happy to be of help. Don’t get carried away! :blush:

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Will this do? :trophy:

:slight_smile:

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@aran Diolch, ond 'na ddigon! :slight_smile:

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Pronunciation help.

Words with wy…

Gwyn is like win with a g in front

Swydd is like how you pronounce egg but with an s in front

What about words like morwyn, dirwy, crwyn, pwyll, cychwyn etc…are there any rules?

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Dunno… :slight_smile:

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Yes indeed…after g - wyn is “win”…yet mwyn - mineral etc = “Moo-een”

Without a consonant after it… like nwy / gwy/ dwy / dirwy … its like “wy” (egg) … oo-ee

Gwynedd / gwyn / gwyniad etc…all different though (‘win’ here

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And gwylio is “gwillyo”, isn’t it, rather than “gooylyo”? Ditto with treiglad, e.g. ei wylio as “i willyo”?

Just foolin’ around with Welsh orthography here…

So “ei gwyn” is? :wink:

I once cornered someone about this! No simple answer - apparently some words are always one or the other, but others have a good deal of regional variation.

Words with ‘ooee’ type sound :
addfwyn
pwytho
mwytho

Some words that can apparently be either, depending on accent:
annwyl
Wythnos
Cyfarwydd

(But:
cyfarwyddwr ‘oo ee’)

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morwyn, cychwyn - I think, always ‘i’

dirwy, crwyn, pwyll, - I think, always ‘ooee’

I may be wrong, but that’s how they’re in my memory. The only way to be sure is to stick to words you remember somebody saying…

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WY I have a notion a lot depends on how to get stress on the penultimate syllable. In words like crwyn, the only way to get two syllables is ooee.
I admit, I use instinct. I mean, I am not aware of rules, I just say what comes naturally, so I may be saying the wrong thing all the time!
ps I had to look up how to spell ‘syllable’ in English because ll seemed so wrong! This might be better in the ‘you know you are learning Welsh when…’ thread!!!

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What’s with “ef”? Is it just another dialectal way of saying “e”, or the more traditional form?

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Ef reminds me of one of my favourite hymns from school and rugby in the 70s and 80s “I bob un sy’n ffyddlon, dan ei faner ef”… So i guess a nice form of fe, e or fo that rhymes or odli’s very well with Nef - haleliwia, byth amen.

According to Gareth King’s dictionary, ef is the literary form of e or fe

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For what it’s worth, “he” in Cornish is most commonly ev - exactly the same as ef if you account for different spelling conventions.

And today’s Cornish is basically 15th-century Cornish frozen in time and thawed up again, so it’s not surprising that much of it looks like archaic, literary, or very formal Welsh :slight_smile:

(Another form of “he” in Cornish is va; I wonder whether that’s connected to fe.)

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Interesting, the old Gwenhwyseg dialect of Gwent / Glamorgan pronounced “fe” as “fa” (along with a lot of other things i.e. words ending with “au” pronopunced with an “a” at the end).

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When I read that, I thought, “Isn’t ‘fa’ just ‘fe’ with a Cornish accent?” :wink:

Interesting, the person I was speaking to was broad up a first language speaker as child, but hasn’t regularly spoken the language for 50-60 years. Most of their exposure to Welsh since then has been in the form of hymns and the William Morgan bible, which would explain why literary Welsh was seeping into their spoken Welsh.

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I’ve a question concerning something I’m encountering in course three. There are some English sentences that include phrases like “there was no need”. The Welsh that comes back sometimes is “doedd dim angen” and sometimes “bod dim angen”. It does similarly with “there was no time”. Is there any rule I can apply that will allow me to use the expected form, or are they the same and it doesn’t matter? Thanks ever so much to anyone who can straighten me out on this.

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Can’t remember the lesson in question, but perhaps there was a phrase before “bod dim angen” that set the context as being past tense, and so the next verb is also understood to be in the past tense. I believe that is generally true in Welsh.

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