Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

Hi
Great you are still going and if I had a £ for everyone that said they struggle with languages I would be super rich by now. Given we have one language is that really the case or is it the method of teaching the second language that is the issue ? Sorry if that is a big question on a tiny question part of the forum.
Pretty sure you will see a huge difference with SSiW
Pob lwc

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Yup, of course it is.
It’s a way of forming the thing in Welsh.

Perfectly naturally, as a less common alternative to “wedi” or “wedi ei”.

Because it’s not so commonly used, it can lead to other meanings with verbs.
Eg “Caredig” means “kind” (sort of) rather than “beloved” (but you might say it is the same thing!)

It’s not a form I would fall back on on all verbs, as it were, unless I heard someone using it. But it is there and used!

Something to remember and understand if people use it, as it were, and use if you hear them using it.

As always, just my experience :blush:

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Just asking for clarification on a word I can’t quite catch. The Welsh for “spending” (time). It sounds like “hala”. Google Translate is suggesting “treulio”. Incidentally, my Level 2 vocabulary boxes seem to be empty. Is this normal? Many thanks, great site, John.

good question “hala”. I have it down for spend and send. Seem to be a few words in Welsh like “dal” that can do quite a lot of things.

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Nope, that sounds as though we need to fill some stuff in for the southern version - is this for all L2 boxes, or just some?

Could well be ‘hala’ - seems to be a fairly flexible word in the south - but maybe @Iestyn can confirm when he gets a chance… :slight_smile:

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“Hala amser” is certainly used like that down here, so if it sounds like it I would say it probably is it.

Of course what Aran says about waiting for Iestyn to be sure about it. :blush:

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hel arian, to collect money,

hela arian, to spend money

according to GPC

ennill arian, to earn money

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Hela… http://www.gweiadur.com/ is great for that kind of stuff.
The first meaning of ‘hela’ seems to be ‘to hunt’, but the second and third meanings are given as Southern variants of two different words. I think it’s used in both of those senses in SSIW lessons if I remember rightly:

http://www.gweiadur.com/cy/Pawb/hela

2 (ar lafar yn y De, yn aml yn y ffurf ‘hala’) gwario, treulio (hela gormod o amser yn y tŷ bach; hela’i arian i gyd yn y ffair) (~ ar) to spend

3 (ar lafar yn y De) ffurf ar hel

http://www.gweiadur.com/cy/Pawb/hel

hel [Gwrando]berfenw 1 danfon, gyrru, erlid (Cafodd ei hel o’r ystafell am ei hamddygiad.) to drive1, to send 2 crynhoi, casglu ynghyd (Rwy’n hel arian at achos da.) to collect, to gather together 3 mynychu, ymweld â (hel ffeiriau; hel tafarnau) to frequent

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Hi Aran. Seems to be all of the Level 2 Challenges. Level 1 is ok.

Yes, I know its origin(s), and have heard it used in different ways down here.
Sorry, I’m not quite sure exactly what your question to me is? (I know you are someone who, like me, reads dictionaries more than most, you see.)

now I’m intrigued, didn’t realise it linked to hela, nevsr looked this one up. In my mind ive hela down for hunting, gathering ot getting sort of thing, but hala. ore of a spending, giving sort of thing. I can’t wait for the official answer here.

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Well though “hala” is related etymologically to “hela”, I get the feeling, as netmouse says, that they are not simply synonyms

As always, just my impression from hearing them used.

I get the impression that “hala” is more used in the “spending time”, or “sending”, “driving (causing) someone to do something” meanings (which, as netmouse says, ‘hela’ can also have).

So my impression (as always!), Toffidil seems on the money here! (As always!:blush:)

If you are all waiting for the opinion of @Iestyn on hela and hala and the spending or earning or hunting-for money, using @ before his name helps him to know you have a question or six!! I was amazed to realise ennill means win as well as earn, it sort of has an opposite connotation in modern English! I do realise ‘winning a living’ was said on days of yore!!

Thanks for the @s to attract my attention.

I can confirma couple of things:

  1. Hala is the word used in much of the south for the spending of both time and money. Northern and literary Welsh both use different words for the two slightly different meanings.

  2. Yes, it is related to (as in the same word as) hela , to hunt, except that. interestingly, it seems that “hunting” on English is thought about in terms of catching stuff, whereas the “hunting” of Welsh is the chase, rather than the catch… So, in southern Welsh, you chase your time away doing something, or chase your money away on some goods or other.

Of interest as well is that treulio, the northern / literary word for spending time, means “to wear away”, so rather than chaing you r time as in the south, you just wear it out in the north.

  1. The course 2 boxes are still empty (Corrected as of 12/10/16 - the boxes are no longer empty!), as filling them slipped off my to-do list some time ago without me noticing. It is back on, and will happen imminently!
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Djolch, what about to send as in Hala’r llythyr?

Although, strangely, you now “win” rather than earn supermarket loyalty card points or an internet auction. two things that you actually spend-out for.

some cracking old ennill expressions on gpc - eniil ei bedolau - (for a horse) rolling from side to side on its back with its feet in the air.

ennill colled - to recover a loss

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That’s brilliant. Does it also apply to a dog after eating his/her dinner?

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Not quite on the money this time. Trying to get a feel for words is quite a good way of learning their meaning though.

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Not sure…
To be honest, “hala” as I’ve heard it used tends to be along the ways you describe it.
But “hunting” is a bit (more than a bit with me, and with other people I have talked to about it!) less used, so may tend to fall back to “hela”, if you see you what I mean.

But I don’t talk about “hunting” enough to get a full feel about it, so Iestyn’s feel is far better!

Definitely not something I would have thought about or brought up as it were, just using one or the other.

(But yes, however you go, I would go on the assumption that either one is fine! Even if anyone noticed the difference in pronunciation! Basically, many different forms of words, forget about minor differences and just use them as and when you hear them, as it were :blush:)