Thanks Richard. I suppose that by now I should be used to the idea that idiomatic expressions don’t always make sense when translated directly! (The Spanish “o sea” always bugged me…)
I believe this is an example of what’s called the “sangiad” which happens when a clause comes in between the object and the subject:
the so called “normal” (simple) sentence structure would be:
“Dwi’n hapus i gerdded bore dydd llun”
(bore dydd llun is the object I believe but I often get confused as to which is which)
So “i’r ydgol gyda chdi” is an inserted clause that interrupts the “normal” sentence structure.
- I’ve been speaking Welsh so long now it just feels natural to do that mutation - I had to look up the grammatical explanation.
Keep up with the ssiw lessons and listening to natural Welsh conversations and you’ll start to just “get it”. That’s how @Aran designed the course to work.
There isn’t actually an ‘object’ in that sentence as there is no transitive verb - one that requires an object. fore dydd Llun gets the ‘softening’ because it’s expressing a time when something will happen - an adverbial expression of time.
ar siawns would be one way of saying “by any chance”
Depending on the rest of the sentence, it can be useful to use digwydd e.g. “Do you know the way to Bangor by any chance?” could be rephrased as “Do you happen to know the way to Bangor?” - Wyt ti’n digwydd gwybod y ffordd i Fangor?
Can you sometimes rephrase it like that? It sounds nice and ‘Welsh’
As an inquisitive reader of nearly everything I came across this. All my questions to you shall now begin with this expression. Diolch yn fawr.
A quick side note … Welsh tends to be much more direct than English I have found learning over the years… so while it is useful knowing polite niceties, I have never had people get as bothered if you miss them unlike English.
You could use fac for vacuum cleaner and facio for vacuuming, so “I was vacuuming the carpet” would be “ro’n i’n facio’r carped”.
I can totally understand that instinct, but in terms of what’s out there in the language at the moment, you’d be making up your own term. Siaron’s “fac” sounds good, if you want another borrowing from English, but I can’t find evidence in the Corpws Cenedlaethol of anyone using it. You could go with something “peiriant sugno carped”, but again - don’t think anyone else uses that!
But hey! You could start something new here!
I was just reminded of pretty much the only line I actually remember from “Are you being served?” - Captain Peacock comes in to find the chap from the stockroom still vacuuming, when the department is just about to open to the public, and asks what he thinks he’s doing. “I’m ‘ooverin’ up the dust, aren’t I? 'Course, if Goblin 'ad got there first, I’d’ve been Goblin up the dust.”
Oh, they don’t make them like that any more!!
If it’s any consolation, the German term is also the equivqlent of “sucking dust”, ie Staubsauger (n. m.), the verb is staubsaugen.
(As Siaron said - “facio” is another term used and it is in the dictionary)
Sugno llwch being outdated? Maybe it is? Its funny how anything Welsh sounding… gets labelled as “outdated” in the Welsh language
If you literally translated the English ‘vacuum cleaning’ it would be “Gwacter-glanhau” or something… Maybe it is English which has the weird phraseology here!?
Most people say “hwfro” …many younger people probably do not know its from the brand ‘Hoover’ …that’s half of language evolution for you lol
I have heard Sugnwr llwch in speech in Mid Wales when a porter at work used it!..so I assume perfectly fine in academic or technical speak…even in general talk, no one who is good at Welsh is going to think you just making up words to be difficult!
Sugnwr/Sugnydd llwch … as welsh as you gonna get…happy to be corrected
Side note: Talking about llwch… I remember the word “blwch llwch” (ash tray) being used with pride even in English convos in West Wales…suppose it is a fun rhyming sound!?
Well, I think you could say “Dw i wedi sugno llwch y carped ddoe”, but then some people may think you literally went down on the carpet and sucked the dust out of it… turning the word order would indicate the figurative sense, but “Dw i wedi llwch-sugno’r carped ddoe” sounds clunky.
But as Cymraeg has an own word for the noun “vacuum” (gwactod), and cleaning is glanhau (which most people in the north shorten to llnau anyway) I propose the neologism gwacllnau for the action:
“Dw i wedi gwacllnau’r carped ddoe”
I feel like my language use here has gone full circle. When I was little in New Zealand, my mum, originally from Lancashire, used to say she was “hoovering” but none of my friends’ mothers said that - they were “vacuuming” or a phrase to do with “Electrolux” which I can’t remember now. So I got used to “vacuuming”, then came to live in Wales and lo and behold “hwfro” came back into my vocabulary!
I love this! My mom (in Missouri, US) always said “vacuuming” so, since I’ve not really lived anywhere else, that’s what I say as well.
I can prove hwfro is a real thing … Heini Gruffudd (spelling?) is a fan!
Of the word or the task, I wonder?
Shwmae bawb,
Just a quick one hopefully, do titles of media and art undergo mutation or are they exempt? e.g
Cwplais i Ryfel a Heddwch neithiwr
or
Cwplais i Rhyfel a Heddwch neithiwr
Diolch!