Bendigedig Olwen!! Da iawn. Nid wyf wedi yn siarad cymraeg eto
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Byddi ti!
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Ahh, I thought @simonadeydavies is computer geek. 
[quote=āhenddraig, post:37, topic:6518ā]
so the Brave New World method will not work.
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Haha ā¦ Iām living proof of that. [quote=āOlwenR, post:39, topic:6518ā]
outside of the SSIW prison
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haha! I love this one! (not to be mean though.) [quote=āOlwenR, post:39, topic:6518ā]
t will hopefully become more natural to speak a bit of Welsh each time I see her.
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Natural first, then pleasant thing after that a great habit. If youād always speak to her in Welsh it will end up she will not even try to start a conversation in English ā¦ Da iawn ti!
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Just watched my first ever rugby match - in Welsh, of course - what a good one to start with! And I was so surprised by how much of the commentary I could actually understand, and how many new words I could figure out and add to my storehouse of information. Still find it incredible to believe this transformation has only taken one week!!!
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@hilary @OlwenR @simonadeydavies - thank you all so, SO much for this feedback - huge amounts to digest - incredibly helpfulā¦ 
Iām going to dig some time out tomorrow to respond properly, and to put together some of my own thoughts about the weekā¦
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I am very impressed if you are not a rugby fan, that you picked up Welsh words, as you may not have known the English ones!
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Thatās true. Iād never thought of that 
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Just posted this on the ā5 Day Welshā Facebook group:
You can see initial comments from Hilary and Olwen on this page - and theyāve posted fascinating and much more detailed feedback on the forum:
[yes, youāre on that thread now!]
So now, my thoughts on how it went, and what happens next.
First up, and very simply: it worked.
5 days of massive effort took three people from ānot far off scratchā through to genuine communication (Iām busy uploading the videos via our painfully slow connection right now).
In fact, they achieved more than I expected - most particularly in terms of their listening skills. We know that the accelerated listening triggers a neurological adaptation - but I thought it would take more than 5 days to kick in - previously, people have told us that it took about two weeks at 5 minutes a day.
Now, it seems that (while I would still expect more consolidation over time) the total time listening is an important part of this - an hour a day for 5 days clearly triggered some genuinely valuable adaptations.
Butā¦
Can we do better?
Yes, I think we can.
All 3 of our pioneers found the extended periods of time when they were ploughing through the lessons very challenging (in different ways). So I think we could provide more support there - team breaks on the hour, maybe some little treat morale boosts, that sort of stuff. It would mean a longer, tougher day for the course leader - or maybe having more than one on the support team - but we want to push the limits, so this is important stuff to get right.
Iāve also been challenged convincingly to reconsider the immersion element of the 5 Day approach.
We know that immersion is vital for our intermediate bootcamps - but for people starting from scratch (or near to scratch) there may be less value to the immersion - as long as the 2 hours of spoken production still happen. Iām always very, very wary of things that seem āeasierā - they can have hidden costs - but I think our next run will test what happens without immersion (ie, with English allowed in between activities).
I also think we could do more to pamper our learners - who thoroughly deserve it when theyāre making this kind of effort. Weāve already been thinking about head massages, but I think it would also be good to do more catering. Our pioneers all seemed to be eating pretty well, but I think having some catering done would add to the sense of enjoyment - and the more enjoyment we can wrap around the undeniable suffering, the better!
Of course, these sort of additions arenāt cost-free. Iām starting to understand why the best language school Iāve ever visited (Regina Coeli, in the Netherlands: https://www.reginacoeli.com/) costs about Ā£5000 a week. We will always want to make learning Welsh, in particular, as low cost as possible - but we may need to work out some kind of partnership approach for that.
Next steps
Weāre looking at two things.
One is a possible date in Portmeirion.
The other is a not-quite-so-expensive next stage test in Caernarfon - towards the end of March.
We havenāt finished costing-out the Portmeirion option - but itās knocking on for a grand just to stay there, so with the extras we want to add, that oneās going to be moderately eye-watering.
The test in Caernarfon, by contrast, weāll try to keep to about Ā£600 or Ā£700 - depending a bit on how much it costs to add some of the extras I mentioned above.
If youād like to hear when we announce specific dates and prices (for people to say if theyāre interested or not), youāve got two options:
1 - Trust Facebook to let you know when I post in this group, or
2 - Stick your name on our email alert list (for 5 Day Super-Intensive dates only) here: https://forms.aweber.com/form/88/754447788.htm
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I wonder if the welsh only rule should only kick in from say wednesday.
I canāt imagine its doing anyone any good to be isolated from communication even if for a few days.
No english tv, radio or books, so for example welsh music is fine to help listening and bilingual menus at meal times perhaps.
For family people i would want to speak to my partner or children.
I wonder also about using cottages where you could have someone cook for the learners but giving them a lesson on how to in welsh but with a picture cribsheet.
All maybe daft ideas, but hey, thatās how the post it note came about! (sort of).
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Think Iād agree on that point - it would have been nice to have known a meal would be on the table after all the morningās and afternoonās slog.
Another good idea. Itās probably something I wouldnāt like to do, but Iām sure there are plenty who would. Itās not that I donāt like head massages (I love them and am a trained therapist), but there are times when I like my brain to remain in a heightened sense of tension, as long as itās only for a few days, at most. I find that if Iām intensely involved in something, then undertake something to relax me, itās then extremely difficult to get the motivation to get back into what I was doing - when Iāve been a relaxing-type holiday from work, it can take me days to get back up to speed (donāt tell my bossā¦ 
). The only time I might enjoy it is if the course was longer than a week, with the weekend off, then a massage on the Friday night would be very welcome.
Again, Iām not sure about this one. I liked the flexibility of being able to work to my own time-table and to take a natural break when I was ready for one, but again, some people may like the idea.
to that one 
The chocolates were very much appreciated, although I probably shouldnāt have eaten my weight in themā¦ 
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As always, very valuable feedback - diolch yn fawr iawn!
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Think even Wednesday would be too optimistic to bring in the Welsh-only rule. Maybe, allow up to half an hourās English max (so people donāt sit talking English into the early hours), when the dayās assigned tasks have been done, but Welsh at all other times. That way you wouldnāt be tempted to fall back on English when things got tough during the day, but you could at least let off steam at the end of the day when you can just get all out all your frustrations and share experiences.
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Ha ha. Iāve just had a pop-up say Iāve been commenting rather a lot on this post, and should I be letting others have their say 
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Yeah, it says that to me too, often enoughā¦
Havenāt figured out how to turn them off yet!
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I agree @hilary. I think Welsh all day until the evening would be fine - it was good to make yourself say something and chatting with @aran at lunchtime was interesting. Maybe the course leader should stick to Welsh all the time and the participants be able to speak for half an hour or so, phone home etc, after the evening activity?
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Sound good. I think your additions will make a big difference and add to the āvalue for moneyā of the course - I would definitely be willing to pay a bit more for more of that kind of thing (if we had been charged in the first place!)
@aran team breaks on the hour, maybe some little treat morale boosts, that sort of stuff.
Hmmā¦ not sure about breaks on the hour, especially if people are working on both South/North variants - the times of the lessons arenāt all the same and you could end up missing the hourly break. Maybe one mid-morning break worked into the schedule would be nice - maybe some cake or pastries to look forward to!
It will be interesting to see how they get on on the next course.
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Yup, in advance of having a set of āactually-almost-exactly-30-minuteā lessons, weād need to be proactive about this, but we can look at which lessons are on the menu in advance and check the timingsā¦
Maybe a look at the cost of running such a course at Plas tan y bwlch is worth a look.
Twm elias would no doubt be happy to give a talk on the Mabinigion.
Cheers J.P.
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Oh, you reminded me how I felt when this happened. I remember @aran said to me that time āBelieve me, it happened to me more times then you can think ofā (or something similar to that) and I was in less āfearā that I might be banned due to my talkativity. - haha Ah, ja, my early days of SSiW ā¦ [quote=āPete2, post:49, topic:6518ā]
I wonder if the welsh only rule should only kick in from say wednesday.
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I donāt know if this would be good because, as @hilary says, no matter how late it would always be too soon to implement it. However i love the idea of alowing some English at particular occassions like breaks or so ā¦
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What a fascinating thread this is! And well done to the three brave pioneers, and to @aran, whose baby I suspect this whole idea was. A very successful delivery!
I particularly liked @hilaryās description of the learning process and the building-a-road metaphor. I always enjoy hearing how other people grapple with the learning process, and how their brains work when presented with new and difficult material. It gives me encouragement, and ideas to try, or even just allows me to say āYes! Thatās it exactly!ā as I struggle with the lessons myself.
Doing a short brutal intensive course appeals to me in several ways. I rather like the idea of a complete English ban for several days. (Iād become pretty good at miming, I think.) 
I love the sound of the Lego building block sessions - itās exactly what I do myself in between SSiW lessons. I like the idea of cramming in as many lessons as possible, I like the idea of pushing yourself hard, and I like the idea of finishing each day feeling exhausted but triumphant - āLook how far Iāve come.ā
However, I think such a course would be out of the question for me, for two reasons. One is that Iām on the other side of the world and have no funds for travel to Europe. 
The other reason I think I would be unsuitable for such a course is that the pause button is forbidden. I can handle the idea of not repeating lessons, but not a forbidden pause button. As I mentioned in a different thread (where @aran explained what working memory is, and I tested mine and discovered itās pretty poor!), I find if I donāt use the pause button, I say almost nothing, because Cat invariably gets in first.
When I tried not using the pause button for an extended period, I went through several entire lessons not saying more than one or two words per response because Cat jumped in first, every time. The very best I can manage - and that only rarely - is to barely keep up with her, and say the sentence simultaneously with her. And that makes me cross. I keep wanting to say āBe quiet, Cat, be QUIET! I could get this if youād just give me time!ā
In contrast, if I use the pause button, I know Cat is not going to say anything until I give her permission to. She becomes an infinitely patient teacher. She has all the time in the world to wait if I need to grope and muddle my way towards a response thatās even vaguely correct.
And hereās the irony - itās precisely because I know Cat is going to wait patiently for me that Iām doing less groping and muddling. Iām getting much faster and more accurate with my responses! Sometimes I manage to come out with the entire correct response immediately after @Iestyn speaks, in what would have been the gap if I hadnāt paused it. But when I experiment with returning to not-pausing, the problem returns.
I can only assume itās a mood thing. Pausing makes me calm, and being calm helps me think clearly. Pausing allows me to approach the task with enthusiasm and goodwill. Conversely, being interrupted by Cat while Iām trying to think makes me irritable, and even just knowing that sheās about to speakā¦ any second nowā¦ here she comesā¦ timeās up! - makes me panicky. Those feelings of irritation and panic tend to cloud my thinking.
I canāt be certain, but I think if I had a real live Cat in front of me, who promised not to say a word until I finished speaking, and not to look impatient or make grumpy noises or check her watch either, Iād probably do just fine. I might not respond quite as quickly as other learners, but I donāt think Iād be desperately slow either.
If I went on this intensive course, and @aran happened to eavesdrop on my lesson, heād hear me coming out with a syllable or two now and then, punctuated by long silences. Even if the rules of the course were relaxed and I were allowed to use the pause button, I would probably make slower progress than the other participants, and that just wouldnāt work if everyone is meant to be covering the same amount of material in the same time.
So all in all, it sounds like the intensive course is not for me, or people whose brains work like mine. But itās still fascinating to read about!
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