I’m not sure if even this term is native one though as all others mantioned here. Kanya maybe and that should be all.
Well, but we in Slovenia call those countries like that: Nimibija, Kenija, Zambija, Botsvana. We just write them a bit phonetically down, that’s all. It can quickly be changed with no particular “pain”.
You should get rid of term Welsh and use Cymraeg though. What I’ve got looking in my dictionary stroke me to the bits: http://puu.sh/hcts5.png
Welsh aside of being “Valižan” or “Valizijec” (Cymro) is explained in our dictionary as trnsitive verb meaning to swindle, to cheat someone out of something … or as intransitive verb meaning to escape, to run away, to flee, to run away with money from bets …
I actually didn’t read one single good meaning of the verbs so yes, now I’m even more for to GET RID OF IT! Cymru, Cymraeg and Cymro it is!
On the one hand, Wales has been referred to as such on the global scale for hundreds of years. While its derivation may not be particularly appealing, it is the English-language name of that region. Yes, the English language has the ability to change where it should. Prior examples in this thread seem to me to be situations in which the English-speaking world was acknowledging the individual sovereignty of the region in question. Correct me if I’m wrong (and I very well may be given that I have a very shallow understanding of the subject), but the powers that be don’t seem to be willing to acknowledge the individual sovereignty of Cymru. This makes global scale change less likely to occur.
On the other hand, we have examples, such as Spain/España, where natives of the land, particularly in their own language, refer to the land in one way whilst the rest of the world uses another.
I imagine starting with getting everyone in Cymru to call it such is probably going to be the first and initially more achievable battle. Although perhaps not with those who feel as though using “Cymru” is akin to having their noses rubbed in something distasteful.
My reasons for hoping the world will some day use Cymru are two-fold: (1) It is its proper name. (2) I’m really getting tired of people thinking I want to see “whales” rather than “Wales” (not trying to make light, this actually is an issue I’ve had)!
I believe the name of one country is ONLY proper in NATIVE language and not one more. With what right can we call some country different then that? What are we? Gods? Who gave us the right to behave that way? I don’t agree with different languages aproach here although in Slovene language it’s also tension to translate every single name to suit us what I hold TOTALLY WRONG AND UNFAIR!
I must admit I’d have very big problems with Shqipërisë (Albania), Zhōngguó (China), Lietuva (Lithuanian) and Ελλάδα (Greece).
I’m a fan of Dewi Pws Morris. He once kindly described me and other Tresaith Bootcampers as lingo warriors but i think he is on to a non-cause here. I’m with the others in this thread who will continue without any sense of guilt to say “Wales” to my English-speaking friends, “Galles” to my Itaian friends, “Pays de Galles” to my French friends and “Hen wlad fy nhadau” to my Welsh friends.
Yah, but, think. Who gave us the right to change names anyway? We took it for granted and didn’t even ask. Now I’ll become a warrior here as this subject actually pinches me already for years.
However here can be problems: Take us - Slovenians and Slovaks into considderation. We both call ourselves Slovenci and we both claim we speak Slovensko however our languages are (not entirely though) quite different not to include the part when people totally mix these two countries and I already lived to see the day when post meant to me in Slovenia circled all around Slovakia to finally after a month or two reached me where I live - in Slovenia.
No matter what problem I’d have to say countries mentioned above I’d use those names. I hae hard times to say Welsh names, words etc but am still trying to squeeze the most out of me and I don’t see the reason I wouldn’t do just the same with those names of countries you mentioned.
But yes, when there’s no one who would understand us then we usually humbly use what is common to all with no questioning and sense of guilt though.
Although I no longer have a current passport, for my last one I completed the Welsh application form putting Caerloyw as my place of birth (apparently I was a week early and accidently ended up being ‘dropped’ in Gloucester!). When the passport came through, it still had Caerloyw as my place of birth, as no-one had thought to try and translate it!
Well, one of those is Ellas, or something like and not too hard to say, I think, but the main point is that what others call us is one thing. It’s them expecting us to call ourselves that which is so annoying!! I say ‘Germany’ here, but in Germany, nobody expects Germans to say anything by Deutchland(spelling?). A crowd of lads wearing scarves labelled “Cymru am byth” shout “Come on Wales” and my heart cries!
You’re entitled to that, of course, but my choice when travelling to other places is to communicate rather than make politico-linguistic points. For example, if I find myself in a German-speaking country, I’ll happily call the country, Deutschland or Schweiz or Österreich but I’ll identify myself by: “Ich komme aus Wales” or “Ich bin Waliser”. To my mind that shows mutual respect.
Moreover, many countries in Europe and the rest of the world are younger than I am and the historical basis of their names has not exactly been established (or even agree by all the inhabitants - take Wales/Cymru as an example). If you go further back in history, the lingusitic arguments become even more suspect and even less relevant.
Isn’t it “Ellada”?
One of the beauties of this forum is that people with differing ideas (often fundamental) can express them in a choice of languages and know that they will be treated with respect. On that appreciative note, I’m quitting this interesting topic.
Those countries are not as young as you’d think it’s just the fact that they were (willingly or unwillingly) parts of bigger (federal) countries for so many years. However at least in ex Jugoslavija we always called ourselves Slovenci, croats were Hrvati, Serbs were Srbi etc, etc. Quite old cultures which overlived the periodes elswhere then in their own countries. The same should be with ex USSR countries. The story is prety much the same.
And … I believe the most important thing is how native people in one country call their country and themselves and that’s how it should be for the rest of the world. If we’re about to show mutual respect then no other name should be given but that of a native one.
But yes, habit bocomes as it is for years, calling people and countries common used way and it’s hard to change it. When we’ll be prepared to change something in majority it will start to move towards what we want, calling countries, languages and people properly, natively in this case.
You don’t need to quit this topic. We’re debating after all and one oposite opinion doesn’t need to result into not saying your own though. If I said something too hard and put out my thoughts too passionatelly then I’m sorry. Will try to “calm down”:
I always say Caerloyw when asked my place of birth now - since not many realise it’s the Welsh name for an English town, I just let them assume it’s somewhere in Wales ;-). If they do ask where it is, I say Lloegr. Most don’t pursue it much further! This after years of “how can you be Welsh if you were born in England?” … don’t get me started on that one!
Don’t get me wrong - I’ve nothing against Gloucester (lovely city - really used to love racing at the regatta!), just never lived there (my fault for stretching my legs while mum was visiting the other side of the border!)
Technically then, although I’m Cymraes, I can’t say born-and-bred in Cymru - just “bred-and-buttered” in Cymru!