Questions about 'ar gyfer' and 'dros'

Welsh General / Questions
#1

I guess this question like so many others have been answered somewhere on the forum. I’d just like to know in simple terms when to use ‘ar gyfer’ instead of’ ‘am’ for ‘for’.

Second question if I may.

I don’t know why ‘dros’ is used for ‘for’ in these sentences, but I just accept that they are…
Mae h’n chwarae dros Gymru (She plays for Wales)
Mae e’n gweithio ‘dros’ y GIG. (He works for the NHS)
Mae hi’n gweithio ‘dros’ y Heddlu. (She works for the police)

However, when it comes to the next sentence I don’t understand why ‘i’ is for ‘for’.
Mae e’n gweithio ‘i’ Tesco. (He works for Tesco}.

Thanks for any replies.

#2

Yes, there are quite a few ways to say ‘for’ in Welsh.
Generally,
am and i are more general purpose ‘for’ and different verbs will take one or other of these prepositions - it depends on the verb.
ar gyfer is in the sense of “for the purpose of”/“for the sake of”
dros is in the sense of “on behalf of”/“in support of”.

In your examples, gweithio is paired with dros when those are countries or institutions, but in the case of Tesco, it is paired with i because it isn’t a country or an institution (in the proper sense of the word!), although sometimes that line is blurred - you can work both i’r BBC and dros y BBC, I think!

So… Dwi’n ymchwilio am wybodaeth fel rhan o’m swydd yn gweithio i Cwmni Da, sy’n cynhyrchu rhaglenni ar gyfer S4C, ac fel mae’n digwydd, dwi wedi cystadlu dros Gymru!
(I search for information as part of my job working for Cwmni Da, who produce programmes for S4C, and as it happens, I have competed for Wales!)

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#3

Thanks Siaron. I think that helps. I need to absorb the reply.

#4

"I have competed for Wales… "

OK, tell us more…

#5

I was in the Welsh Junior Rowing Squad when I was (much!) younger - I represented Wales in Womens Junior Sculls at the Home Countries International Regattas of 1984 & 1985 (and in the 1985 one, I won Wales’ only gold medal that year!) :grin:
WJ1x%201985

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#6

These all come down to the wide variety of meanings of the English word for nicely summarised by @siaronjames there.

I would add that

  1. am primarily means in exchange for, and separate to this is also used after a wide range of verbs - chwilio am look for, aros am wait for, gobeithio am hope for, gofalu am care for and so on and on…

  2. ar gyfer is probably these days the default choice for for in its most common use as meaning for the benefit of - much more common than i. I think I remember putting this TV example in the new book: Dyma sy gynnon ni ar eich cyfer chi heno 'ma Here’s what we’ve got for you tonight.

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