Moved here from the Spanish forum
Hello,
Does anyone know if there is any difference in meaning or use of āgallais i, or galles iā and āgallwn iā? I know that the former is the Preterite Tense and the latter is the Conditional Tense but when I try to create sentences with them, they seem to mean the same thing. With most verbs the difference is easy to understand but āGalluā is causing me all sorts of problems. My knowledge of Welsh is very limited and I find this verb very confusing. Thank you in advance for any help anyone can give me. Simon
Sorry I have posted this on the wrong Forum. Please ignore.
gallwn i - I could
Thank you brynle
I rather suspect that itās the English thatās the problem here, not the Welsh.
gallwn i (conditional) = I would be able to (āI couldā)
vs
gallais i (past) = I was able to (also āI couldā!)
However, as being able to do something is a state that naturally lasts for some amount of time, Iām struggling to think of when Iād want the simple past as opposed to an imperfect, anywayā¦
Hello Richard, thank you for your reply. I am sure you are right that itās the English causing the problem. I received another reply that said the short form past tense, though existing is hardly ever used. What about this example for its use? " I could smell the roses in the garden as I ran past the house, I was happy because my sense of smell had returned after catching Covid". Itās the past tense, the individual event of smelling the roses is not something that continues over time or is repeated over time, thought the new ability to smell again does. Should it be:
Gallais i arogli or Gallwn i arogli or Roān iān gallu arogli? I am probably getting into a muddle over nothing but that seems to be part and parcel of trying to learn another language.
Thanks you for your help.
Simon
I couldnāt swear to it, but my understanding is that gallwn is the imperfect in Literary Welsh, but the conditional in colloquial, i.e. the same tense has a different meaning depending on the context (this is certainly the case for most verbs, but itās possible that gallu is treated differently). I would not therefore use gallwn for āwas able toā. You can sometimes use the short preterite even with stative verbs like meddwl, but only where itās a sudden thing (like āI saw this and thought of youā), and Iām not convinced that being able to smell the flowers would be quite that sudden a thing. So Iād be inclined to go with roān iān gallu.
Thanks for your advice Richard, I will stick with the imperfect tense from now on. Diolch!
I could see the sea, Roeddwn iān gallu gweld y mor. Gallwn i weld y mor. I can see the sea, Dwiān gallu gweld y mor, Galla i weld y mor. The long forms here are easier and most or many people i know use them. Gallais ayyb are in the verb books but I dont believe they are ever spoken now, found in old manuscripts by Taliesin & Aneirin and so on.
Help from people on line is so useful. Diolch yn fawr am dy helpu Paul!
Roeddwn iān gallu gweld y mor and dw iān gallu gweld y mor ā¦ have different references in time.
Dw iān gallu is present tenseā¦ roeddwn iān gallu gweld - I was able to see (continuous action over time in the past)
Gallais / Galles is still heard in speech very occasionally especially in posher speak in some parts of Wales according to my first language friends but mainly shortened to Galles etc ā¦ so maybe stick to more common spoken forms
Hi @brynle - whatās the source of your screenshot? Iām just a bit cautious about the idea that the preterite and the perfect are the same (they definitely arenāt in English!). For example, in English I can say āI did my homework, but the dog ate it,ā (preterite) but not āI have done my homework but the dog ate itā (perfect) - once itās vanished inside the dog, I can no longer say āhaveā - and my understanding is that Welsh would make the same sort of distinction between wnes i and dw i wedi. Iād have thought that cenais was the super-literary equivalent of wnes i ganu, but not of dw i wedi canuā¦
The second screenshot?
I hopefully havenāt said they are the same btw 
. Cenais shown here is merely them highlighting old literary forms. āLiterary Welshā is their term for modern Welsh literary.
Sorry if it was confusing. Maybe I needed to add more context.
This linguistic source was a thorough examination of the history of the Welsh language
I agree what you say about the wnes i versus dwi wedi ā¦ is the top screen shot confusing? The source describes at length agreeing with your statement btw. I have only taken one small screen shot of the explanation. Maybe therein lies the confusion? I will remove the attachments if so
Diolch Brynle thanks for your explanation, I think i was referring to the use of āgallaisā as the past or imperfect tense of the verb gallu and the use of āroeddwn iān galluā in its place. āRoeddwn iān galluā - āI was able toā is of course different from āgallwn iā, e.g āI could see the sea if i was tallerā used in present time.
Gallu can cause problems for new speakers, e.g. āgallwn iā and āgallwn niā and think I was trying to suggest using using the long forms if and where itās easier and appropriate. I think that āgalluā can be an awkward verb to conjugate (like āhoffiā).
I live in South East Wales and Iām not a first language Welsh speaker (so have experienced the āpitfallsā).
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Surely that should be (allowing for dialect variants) a baswnā¦ taswn āI couldā¦ if I wereā construction? Iād read the Roeddwn iā¦ version as a literal past tense ācouldā - āI used to be able toā¦ā
its a tricky one /// you are probably completely correct ā¦
I was making the mistake of trying to use roeddwn iān gallu in a sentence for him (as he asked) and just translated his example without thinking ā¦ 
in other words ā¦I was trying to be too clever and went wrong . Thank you for the correction
Does ā¦ Gallwn fod wedi gweld y mĆ“r pe bawn yn dalachā¦ work?
I know baswn is used in the north too
Pe bawn iān dalach, gallwn fod wedi gweld y mĆ“r (mi faswn iān gallu gweld y mĆ“r? - gog?) ā¦ is that more natural?
Im going by old literary rule of gallu - to be able to/ medru - to be skilled ā¦ maybe the north doesnt care anymoreā¦but my Cwm rheidol family use this old school distinction in the āin between dialects realm of northern ceredigionā sometimesā¦drives inlaws cuckoo as they use both north/south dialects here
I think my instinctive answer - having stuck always to northern for SSiW, but obviously with plenty of media exposure to all sorts - would be to turn both the āI wouldā and the āif I wereā into just 'swn iān, and then thatād work with gallu just as well as medru - 'Swn iān gallu gweld y mĆ“r, 'swn iān dalach. (I think!)
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