I just did the Southern challenge 1, and I’m wondering… It seemed fine, and it felt like it might have been slightly more useful than the old lesson 1, but it also seemed largely similar. Is the new structure about rejiggling of words, or was there a major change in philosophy in there that I’m being too dense to notice?
I noticed the change from ‘lesson’ to ‘challenge’ , and wondered if this implied some deep-seated change of direction.
I’ve just this minute finished the same challenge. My impression was that we got more words in this one than in the old course 1, and the length of sentences increased more rapidly. Some things from much later in the course were also pulled in from the start as well, which was good.
I’m going to see if my daughter wants a go at it - if she ever gets up! Will see what effect it has on a 9 year old.
I did try the first ten lessons of the northern challenges last week and my impression by the end of that was that the change to the basic structure of the course was more apparent as the lessons progressed - although I’d struggle to pin down what the difference was (perhaps it was more narrative and less “grammatical” than the old course - hard to say exactly what I mean here!)
In general though. It’s just lovely to have another slightly different way of getting to the same end - speaking Welsh. Thanks to Iestyn, Cat and the behind the scenes team for providing new toys to play with 
Oh, sure, I’m not complaining about it, I’m just interested.
Oh dear… certainly didn’t read your post as a grumble (And apologies if my own post sounded like a rebuff 
) Having just finished the challenge myself I was itching to offload my own thoughts! Be interested to hear how you get on with challenge 2.
I’m sure Aran will be along to correct me soon but my impression of the theory behind it is to get learners into a conversation faster and earlier. With the old course many people were saying that they were talking in the wild after just a few lessons which wasn’t what was expected so the new course is supposed to make more useful stuff available earlier in the course. I think. 
@Steve
I’ll report back, then.
@Gruntius
That makes sense, thanks. Knowing another way to say “I can’t speak Welsh” will certainly be useful for me 
There’s not all that much difference in the first session, because an absolute beginner is an absolute beginner - but the divergence is more and more dramatic as the course goes on, and I’d put good money on the difference between someone who’d finished Course 1 (old style) and someone who’d finished Level 1 (new) being like night and day if they pitched up at Bootcamp with each other…
I’ll look forward to the rest then, thanks.
This implies to me that there must be more content in C1bis than in C1, or that redundant stuff was removed - but it didn’t seem like there was much redundant stuff in C1 to start with (I often need to park my giraffe). Does that mean the new one’s going to be even more of a brain-fry than the old one was?
My daughter has just tried the first ten minutes of both new and old southern courses. She preferred the old because it was a gentler start. Shame. I was hoping to do new course 1 with her!
Interesting. I wonder if that was because the introduction was part of the first lesson? Otherwise, the rate of introduction is pretty much the same in both of them…
but it didn’t seem like there was much redundant stuff in C1 to start with
There was, though, depending on how you measure ‘redundant’… And more importantly, there was stuff that was very urgently needed and not there.
There was, though, depending on how you measure ‘redundant’…
And more importantly, there was stuff that was very urgently needed and not there.
Yes, I guess this is true (on both counts), thanks. Being able to talk about cats and dogs gives you something to talk about if you want a forced conversation to practise talking about cats and dogs, but probably doesn’t show up in conversation very often. There is a /lot/ of very useful stuff in C1 though, so I don’t want to give the impression I’m unhappy with it
I’m quite looking forward to doing all of C1bis. Maybe I can do L2 over my lunch break…
The standout example I always give is this:
Learner does the first five/ten/25 lessons of Course 1. Finds a Welsh speaker. Says, with understandable pride, ‘Dwi’n trio siarad Cymraeg! Dwi’n licio trio siarad Cymraeg! Dwi isio siarad Cymraeg rwan!’
Welsh speaker replies, ‘Ffantastig! Pa mor hir dach chi’di bod yn dysgu?’
Learner retreats, miserably, to the nearest pub with a dictionary, to look up ‘pa mor’ and ‘hir’ and ‘wedi bod’, and then packs it all in as a bad job before they even meet someone with an old dog…
Well your comment about the relative challenge of the first lesson was a red rag to a bull Aran… She’s just redoing the first ten minutes of new course 1 to see whether you’re right…
(Sorry can’t remember how to quote on the new forum).
Aha! Bulls who respond to red flags always end up very good Welsh speakers…
Welsh speaker replies, ‘Ffantastig! Pa mor hir dach chi’di bod yn dysgu?’
I understood ‘Ffantastig’.
I understood ‘Ffantastig’.
Exactly. And you’re at the end of Course 2! But this sentence is one of the first things you’re likely to hear when you talk Welsh to someone - ‘how long have you been learning?’
People doing the new stuff will be able to understand that, and say a small mountain of things in response, by the time they’ve got up to Challenge 7…
and the length of sentences increased more rapidly
Oh grief yes; I just did L2, and the sentence length difference from how I remember the old C1 being is drastic.
(As a side note, I rather like the intro-outro music change)
I like the approach to the new course. The old course essentially turned me into a Welsh speaker, and I have a good sense of humour so loved the approach with purple dogs and so on. My only issue with it was that stuff you hear all the time in spoken Welsh (alla i/ fedra i for example) and also many of the contractions 'di for wedi, and 'im for ddim came in much later. This might have been perfect - it worked for me after all, but because they are so common in every day speech I found it was tricky for me to catch stuff on TV and radio until quite far into the course. The new course addresses this, so is naturally an improvement, as all rewrites usually are. I wonder though if they very kind and gentle way the old first course worked might be why I got on so well - the time it took to lay the foundation before going into contractions, short forms.
It’s all good because now we have all the courses, old and new, and together they just reinforce each other. The old course is already a “classic album” as far I’m concerned anyway - far and away the most effective language I have ever done.
Diolch o galon, Bontddu…
I wonder though if they very kind and gentle way the old first course worked might be why I got on so well
One of the things we’ll be in a better position to do by the end of the year will be vary certain factors in the new material, and do some A/B testing to see what impact they have on learners - we might even end up being able to offer an easy/moderate/challenging set of options, that kind of stuff…