Yeah, that’s pretty much the picture there, I’m afraid. Exam boards will be picky - not least because they’d come under attack for ‘undermining standards’ if they didn’t…
But the good news is that they won’t pay all that much attention to mutations in any oral components, and in the written stuff, working from a memorised list isn’t the same kind of problem as it is in speech… 
That’s interesting Aran, and thank you. I must say that although I enjoy the discipline of exam preparation, and classes provide a scaffolding on which to hang study, I am seriously going off the idea of actually putting myself through an exam, as a qualification doesn’t add anything to my proficiency - which is of course obvious.
It sounds as though you’ve got a pretty clear handle on which are the motivating factors for you, and which aren’t - you certainly shouldn’t feel that there’s anything wrong in choosing to skip the exam…
I realise qualifications can be important for certain jobs etc, but I got O-level French and Welsh at school (both second language) and I couldn’t speak either.
It wasn’t wasted time, just an inefficient way of language learning and I’ve realised from this method that language learning is better done without a pen and paper. I would personally complete this course and then, maybe if you want, brush up on a little grammar etc and then do the exam - because even without ever looking at a book the oral part will be so much better than I ever did when I did my exam and I think the grammar as well will become a lot more intuitive.
Thanks Toffidil, yes the oral component is worth doing. I’m definitely going to complete Sylfaen, whether or not I sit the exam. I’m under no pressure to sit an exam. I want to progress through to Canolradd, and further. Classes are essential for me. Without them I’d lose interest. This conversation has really caused a shift in my attitude towards what I learn and how much attention I want to pay to things Real Welsh Speakers don’t even attend to themselves. Diolch yn fawr pawb.
Reminds me of my cousin from Leicester who drew a picture for Gran to put on her fridge and it said:
“The sun as got is at on. Ip ip ip ooray. The sun as got is at on and es comin out to play”
Every word written as she says it.
Reminds me of Hebrew, which has a formal set of rules for softening certain consonants at the beginning of words under certain conditions.
In the spoken language, the rules are rarely followed - in fact it sounds both learned and rather forced. But everyone knows the rules, and that they are reserved for formal speech.
So what does the colloquial Hebrew learner do to sound normal? Very simple. Start using the language in the wild and speak like everyone else.
I rest my case.
I think it’s a pity that one type of language education will actually deter people who are learning a second language. Several people who joined Mynediad with me just dropped out within the first few weeks.
I took O level French at school in the 1960s, and bizarrely, the first time I attempted to speak French spontaneously (more or less) was in the oral exam!!! We all knew a fair amount of French by that stage, and to be fair, we could even pronounce it reasonably ok. But we were never encouraged (i.e. given the opportunity) to actually converse in it.
I know things had moved a lot further in a better direction with GCSE’s. (I actually took both French and German GCSE as a not particularly young adult, much later, at approximately the same time as my two kids were taking them, and the spoken component was much more important by then).
I’d love to re-visit my French. I was quite good at it in school, but I come from a very traditional working class family who regarded travelling to the next county, let alone country, as quite adventurous. France may as well have been on the moon, and I didn’t have any concept that I might one day get the opportunity to speak actual French to actual French people in actual France, bizarre as that might sound these days, so I failed my O Level through lack of effort.
This reminded me that a few classmates of mine were able to write perfectly correct English at school - while I was never that good. Then they went on studying English at the University, and became able to write like native academics - which I could never do.
But when traveling abroad, if they tried to do basic things like ordering in a restaurant or having a chat with someone at the bus stop - natives often seemed to have a hard time to understand what they were saying.
While I always made quite a mess of grammar, but could chat alright, and once when I tried to book a room in a motel in a small town somewhere in the USA, the owner answered: “I’m sorry, we don’t accept American guests”. 
I had to call all of my friends who were sitting in the car to convince the guy we were Italian tourists and I was not American! 
For what it’s worth Gisella, if you hadn’t told us you were Italian (plus the clue in your name), there is nothing so far in any of your writing here that would suggest to me that you were not a native speaker of English. (Even if you think you can’t write like a native academic).
Well…thanks! 
That would prove the way to really learn a language is just using it in the wild! 
I did study English at school the traditional way - starting 3 times with all the “how do you do” and “what’s your name” “where’s mister Freeman? He’s over there!” kinda stuff - because every few years I ended up in a class with kids who had not done English before.
Never hearing any native speaker, or try to say more than short sentences based on one grammar rule or the other for years.
So boring and slow, that it was a pure miracle that I didn’t end up hating it!
Luckily, I had started by listening to records in English - without understanding anything, but loving them (like with Welsh, now)
Then I got curious to understand what they were saying (like with Welsh, now).
Then started watching movies in English, which had no subtitles so I understood almost nothing (just like Welsh TV or radio now).
Then drove my parents crazy for years asking to go to the UK, until they gave up and sent me to a language study stay in a family in England, where again I didn’t understand anything and could say almost nothing, but did the best I could. (more or less like I plan to do with Welsh, now - but luckily I’m not a kid and don’t need to convince my parents any more!) 
And from then on listening, reading, speaking and writing every chance I could.
No expensive courses, no tutors, no extra lessons - and mostly doing things I enjoyed and talking to people I liked to talk to.
Sounds like it worked ? I hope to do the same with Welsh then! 
That’s a really inspiring story! Reminds me of the Danish actor brothers, Lars and Mads Mikkelsen. Although they learned English in school, they perfected their spoken English by listening to Monty Python videos - with the result that they ended up with very natural sounding London accents which they have to consciously drop when asked to play Scandinavian characters on tv!
Lars came to fame in this country, when he played the mayor of Copenhagen in the first series of “The Killing” (the Danish version - original and best). Judging by the Guardian “Killing” blog at the time (and also from comments by my wife), he became something of a favourite with the ladies. (I think Mads was already a bit of a sex symbol outside of DK, thanks perhaps to having appeared in English speaking roles).
Given that Denmark only has about 9 actors (slight exaggeration… ), it’s quite a coup for one family to have two of them.
Ah! The Killing opened up a whole world for me. Lars was awesome. He is a bit of a looker, I must say. The Danish acting pool is small, isn’t it? I enjoy spotting them: e.g. Pilou Asbjek in Game of Thrones was fab too. Once I’ve got as far with Welsh as I can, I want to learn Danish. It’s a portal to all the other Scandinavian languages, so a very useful learn. And I want to learn Russian. I may need to live to be 100.
Yeeah, once you find out learning languages can be fun, it gets kinda addictive, doesn’t it?
My impression of Danish - based on a few days I spent visiting Copenhagen and around, is that it is very similar to Dutch - that to me sounds a bit like a mix of English and German.
It doesn’t sound like Scandinavian languages, even though I remember it does have things like circles and bars on vocals like them, so I’m sure there is something in common too.
Scandinavian languages sound more like Welsh with Northern accent than Danish, to me so maybe Welsh is already a bit of a portal already!
I’d agree, don’t get too het up about it as there are 31 treiglad meddal rules that I can think of in the BBC Grammar book but just let it flow and come naturally. It will, over time.
It’s interesting what you say about French. Being a native French speaker with a brother, 3 nephews and now some grand-nieces and a grand-nephew spread around the Lille to Dunquerque area, I’m not sure I’d agree about no-one saying ‘nous’ and no-one saying ‘je ne peux pas faire quelquechose’ etc. Amongst friends and younger people, yes, I agree that people will speak pretty much as you say, but if you don’t want to appear offhand to the point of almost being rude and you are talking to people you don’t know that well, you’d make the effort to enunciate and speak something more approaching ‘proper’ French. It also depends somewhat on how good your ear is at picking up words that admittedly get somewhat merged together so that - to the less well accustomed ear (ie not a native speaker’s ear) - it may sound like “chuis” but actually it’s “j’suis”. When someone speaks quickly, words do tend to merge into each other and into oblivion!
It’s interesting how 3rd languages sound differently to people from 2 different 1st languages. I was with a Pole who was astonished I couldn’t tell the difference between his language and Czechoslovakian. They sounded identical to me!
One of the great things about English is that it has roots in several northern European languages, so something in common with each.
I’m not well informed about the roots of Welsh, and which other modern languages it is linked to, apart from the minority ‘Celtic’ ones. One interesting thing about it, so I have heard, is that Welsh has links to Icelandic! Apparently it’s because Vikings took slaves from western Britain in the middle ages.
Danish amuses me because of its aversion to consonants. Apparently Swedes can understand Danes (c.f. The Bridge) a bit like English speakers trying to understand Glaswegians, so I’ve been told.