Level 1 Challenge 13

Ye gods! That one left me standing towards the end!

One question: If ‘preguntar’ is ‘to ask’ and ‘to ask you’ is ‘preguntarle’, why isn’t ‘ask your sister’ ‘preguntar a su hermana’? Why is it ‘preguntarle a su hermana’ which seems to say ‘ask you your sister’? :slight_smile:

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Just realised it undoubtedly has something to do with the fact that ‘le’ is formal you and the third person, but why do we need the pronoun when the sentence already includes ‘your sister’?

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¡Hola Doug!

Yes 13 really is a hard one isn’t it? I think the answer to your question relates to the -le ending being used with him, her, (it) and for formal you. Thus the meaning of Quiero preguntarle algo is dependent on context, and could mean “I want to ask you” or “I want to ask him”, and so on. Thus Quiero preguntarle a su hermana follows this pattern. @gabycortinas will be able to provide the best response though.

Hasta pronto,

Stu

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Cheers Stu. Yep, I got that in my second comment. Doesn’t explain why we need the pronoun AND the object in the same sentence, although I’m sure there’s a perfectly rational (spanish) explanation :smiley:

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Ah, yes, I’d say 13 and 14 are in fact with hindsight perhaps a little too hard…:wink:

But don’t worry, push on through, and you’ll enjoy the calmer waters of 15… :slight_smile:

As for pronoun and object in the same sentence - that’s just classic ‘languages working in different ways’ - there’s nothing inherently ‘right’ about the structures that make so much instinctive sense to you as an English speaker - they’re inherently English more than inherently right! - so it’s always easiest just to roll with them until they become natural for you… :slight_smile:

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Cheers Aran. So is there a grammatical rule here, or does it just depend on the verb?
Or should I, pre-empting your response, not worry about grammar? :smiley:

I love it when I don’t actually need to answer…:wink:

[Disclaimer: my personal lack of interest in/knowledge of grammar doesn’t mean I think it’s a bad thing, as a hobby - I just argue that it’s helpful to see learning about grammar as a separate process to acquiring a spoken language :slight_smile: ]

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Agreed :slight_smile: I quite enjoy it though - very sad :smiley:

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Don’t tell anyone I said this, but it can clearly be a complex and rather beautiful field of study… :slight_smile:

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Just my two cents but as I understand I don’t think the pronoun and the object are always used - basically in this instance it is just to clarify.

In a conversation where you were already speaking only about your sister I don’t think you would need the “a su hermana” but you would use it if it wasn’t clear because “preguntarle” can mean either he/she or you formal.

I hope that is right and it would be good to know if it isn’t!

I find the grammer helps me to make sense of things I already know, however I have huge problems with grammer when I try to learn a rule and then apply it. I agree with @aran that speaking and grammer seem very separate to me and I do treat them as two very differnt things.

I tend to use:


To look up points that are “bugging” me but most grammer I try to just accept and move on.

Good to see you are progressing through the levels, I have finished all the Spanish levels now and am impatiently waiting for level 3!

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Hi @Clare! I was reading your excellent thread last night - I wondered if you were still about :slight_smile: Like the subtle hint to @aran :wink:

Yep, you may well be right re the pronoun/object thing. That’s something I’m familiar with but I didn’t think that it was necessary to clarify in the context of what was asked during the challenge. It will all come out in the wash no doubt. :slight_smile:

SpanishDict I’m very familiar with. Use it all the time. They have a good grammar app as well, just called SpanishDict. Worth looking at :slight_smile:

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Ha! @Clare, ignore that last bit re spanish dictionary, just noticed you said StudySpanish! I use them all - I’m on the mailing list for StudySpanish. I got them confused - it’s an age thing :wink:

Yes, this is all right - but the other way round, you wouldn’t drop the ‘le’ and say just ‘preguntar a su hermana’ - you’d stick with ‘preguntarle a su hermana’, which sounds a little redundant to English-speaking ears. Of course, you’d be understood no problem at all if you did say ‘preguntar a su hermana’, so we’re really talking fine details here… :slight_smile:

And the good news is that we have pretty much finished the software fixes that we need for this, so we should be able to start work on it in the very near future - probably September… :slight_smile:

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@aran So would ‘I want to help your sister’ be ‘Quiero ayudarle a su hermana’?

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Um, my guess is yes, but I’m not a fluent Spanish speaker, so always best to look for a response from @gabycortinas :slight_smile:

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Was bugging me so I googled it…

http://tinyurl.com/jdr9mpw

HTH :blush:

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Grammar overload… grammar overload… brain going to explode… :boom: There, you went and made my brain explode :smile: :wink:

Stu

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@essenbee Grammar is good Stu :slight_smile:
@Clare Hmm. Not entirely convinced. Not sure there is an indirect object in the setence ‘i want to ask your sister’ unless the indirect object is implied i.e. WHAT are you going to ask her. Unless we look at the verb ‘want’ - I suppose she could be the indirect object of that verb, but then I would have thought the sentence should be written ‘Le quiero preguntar a su hermana’
I feel a post on a grammar forum coming on :smiley:

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@Clare @gabycortinas Ah. How about this? I am asking something of your sister. Then I guess the direct object would be ‘something’ and the indirect object would be ‘your sister’. In which case the ‘le’ at the end of ‘preguntarle’ would reference the something you are asking, rather than ‘your sister’. That would work. :slight_smile: Probably completely wrong though.
Also, if that is correct, ‘I want to help your sister’ wouldn’t require the ‘le’ on the end of ayudar.
Love this grammar stuff :smiley:

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I think we need a native for this. Or a post a grammer forum!

Me and my two cents seem to have opened a can of worms and exploded heads

:joy::joy::joy:

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