Learning South-West Welsh Dialect (Yn Dysgu Dyfedeg)

Welsh General / Questions
1

S’mae pawb,

Rwy’n eisiau dysgu Dyfedeg. Mae fy nheulu ganddon hanes yn De-Gorwellan Gymru, ond wnaethon fy nhad-cu byth siarad â ni Gymraeg (meddyliodd yr iaith ei fod e ddim yn defnyddiol am y dyfodol.) Ar ôl ceisio tipyn o hymchwil ar lein, dydw i ddim wedi darganfod geiriau Dyfedeg neu newidiadau araill pa’n gwneud Dyfedeg yw Dyfedeg.

Oes siadawr Cymraeg Dyfedeg sy’n gallu helpu yma?

Ta mawr.

`

Hey everyone,

I want to learn the Dyfedeg dialect of Welsh. My family has history in South-West Wales, but my Tad-cu never passed down the language (He thought it wouldn’t be useful for the future). After trying to research online, I can’t find any words unique to Dyfedeg or over changes that make Dyfedeg what it is.

Are there any Dyfedeg speakers here that can help?

Thanks very much.

2

Hi Jono. I don’t think we have any Dyfedeg speakers active here (though I’d love to be proved wrong for your sake!). I’d suggest that a good place to enquire might be the “Iaith” group on Facebook - I’m sure people on that would be able to help or point you in the right direction.

1 Like
3

Thanks Siaron!
Unfortunately, I don’t have much social media (WhatsApp and instagram for work). For most social media accounts now, you sign up and get accused of being a fake unless you upload ID documents like a passport. It’s not something I’m comfortable with at all.

But I am planning to move to the Ceredigion, Pembroke, Swansea or Llanelli area in the next two years, so hopefully I could try to pick Dyfedeg through practise (I hope). I wondered if I could get a head start before moving.

1 Like
4

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Pobol Y Cwm set pretty much right in the middle of this area? Several characters come from elsewhere—you might need a guide as to who is born-and-bred local so you know whom to copy—but it’s definitely good for listening to colloquial speech and picking up slangy and casual variations.

5

Hi Jono,
I grew up around Penygroes, Llandeilo area of Dyfed. I was a second language learner (born in Liverpool, Welsh parents), so definitely never fluent.
However, I soon noticed when doing SSI that some of the vocabulary was different to what I heard growing up.
For example “so’i moyn”- I don’t want.

I just asked Chatgpt to give me other examples for you. I’m not familiar with the Pembrokeshire one’s it gives, bit I can definitely vouch for all the others listed here.

South West Wales Welsh Vocabulary Comparison
Standard / Other Dialects
South West Wales

Shwd? -Sut? How? / How are you?

One of the most iconic SW Welsh features:
Moyn - Eisiau / Isio - Want

Strongly associated with southern speech
Llefrith - Llaeth- Milk

Older form retained regionally
Nawr- Rŵan / Rwan- Now

Common South vs North distinction
Lan-Fyny-Up

Used in movement/direction
Lawr-I lawr / i waered- Down

Very frequent colloquial form
Mas-Allan- Out

Extremely common in west/south speech
Bant-Draw / i ffwrdd-Away / over there

Common directional particle
Fan’na-Yna / draw fan’na- There

Colloquial southern/western
’Ma / ’na-Yma / yna - Here / there

Colloquial clipped forms
More Specifically Pembrokeshire / Far South-West Forms

Some of these are especially associated with north Pembrokeshire Welsh:

Wês-Oes-Yes / there is
Dwê-Ddoe-Yesterday
Cwêd-Coed-Trees / wood
Wer-Oer-Cold
Perci-Caeau-Fields
Cered-Cerdded-To walk
Tewi-Tywydd-Weather
Wsnoth-Wythnos-Week

South West Welsh also often prefers:
Synthetic Past Tense More Than Some Other Regions:

Gwelais i = I saw
instead of the more periphrastic:
Nes i weld
This survives more strongly in traditional southern/western speech. �

Paid achan!- Stop it! / Don’t! (regional emphasis)
Shwmae / Shwd mae?- Hello / How are you?
Beth sy’ mas?- What’s happening? / What’s up?

Those last 3 are commonly used.

Hope that helps.

6

Following on from Ingrid’s really useful AI list, if it’s West Pembrokeshire you’re interested in there some stuff online if you search on “Wês wês”, e.g.

1 Like
7

I don’t really know what is Dyfed. I’m a bit lost with regions of Wales (and Britain)!
But assuming it includes Ceredigion, Sir Benfro ans Swansea/Llanelli since you mention them, a few ideas could be:

  • joining on line a chat group with someone from the area
  • a few 1-to-1 lessons focused on dialect with someone from the area
  • trips in the area focused to practise Welsh, and joining local chat groups and speakers
    (I have a few contacts, if you like)

I would say that if you really want to master a specific dialect in detail you it’s probably better to focus on that in particular - but of course if you haven’t decided where you’re going to move it may not be that easy.

In the meantime, I did a little test and the Iaith Facebook group that @siaronjames mentioned seems visible also if you don’t have an account. So probably worth a try (of course you can’t ask or comment, but if you can read the posts and comments you’ll sure find a lot of about dialects).

2 Likes
8

The name Dyfed is an ancient one, appearing in the Mabinogion, and its history predated that work. However, in the context of the above posts, Dyfed was the name used during 1974-1996 for a single administrative county, covering the former counties of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Cardiganshire. In April 1996, Dyfed officially changed back to three separate local authorities (Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, and Pembrokeshire) and Dyfed County Council was abolished, with the area being restructured into the three unitary authorities - reverting to the historic county boundaries. The name Dyfed is still used for some organisations to denote the region, e.g., Dyfed Powys Police, and is also used for ceremonial purposes, e.g., there is still a Lord Lieutenant of Dyfed (currently Miss Sarah Edwards) who represents the KIng in these counties, arranges royal visits, etc.

1 Like
9

When I lived in Ceredigion and I had to enter my address in an online form for any reason, I often found the dropdown of counties didn’t give me Ceredigion, but did include Dyfed, and I had to go with that. A bit confusing when I first moved there and had never heard of Dyfed!

1 Like