Thanks! Will have a look at this when I get the chance.
A slightly updated version of Irish was added with the latest update to the app, but it’s nothing major. It’s quite different to the version on the PWA. The version in the older app is the one I built the bones of with a native speakers, the version in the PWA is a newly generated one. The new one could be slightly better because it was generated so much later and the AI models and our systems are better, but I’d expect it to make quite a few of the same mistakes it made with Irish originally.
In terms of switching between the two, it looks like it might be complicated, they seem to use pretty different constructions. I’d be interested to hear about it if you try it though! I’m thinking about going to the PWA version and seeing if I can apply some of the decisions we made with the native speaker to it, to make the more aligned
Just to give you a little context here, we currently have 30 free languages available on the trial app, and we have one (1) Kai working on the fixes (and not speaking the vast majority of the languages!).
So we’ve got a pretty stark choice - we can either offer the courses with flaws (they still work very well, as I’m finding with Croatian, despite the hiccups) and hope over time to be able to build a robust set up for volunteers to help fix errors, or we just switch them off until such time as we are perhaps able to afford to employ proofreaders per language.
We do have the capacity currently to give volunteers edit access, but it’s not the simplest piece of software (because it does a LOT of pretty complicated things).
I’m sure Kai would be delighted to walk any volunteers through how to make most of the changes (we don’t currently have an easy way to make bulk changes, though).
But until we have volunteers on board, we are definitely not going to be very quick with fixes, I’m afraid.
I wrote a fairly long post, then deleted it in favour of a shorter reply. I understand (haskanum em!) the situation and appreciate the time and effort that has gone into getting them up, and I certainly don’t want anyone at SSiW to think otherwise. I’m also looking forward to digging into some of the others, and to seeing what else Kai can come up with .
That said, it’s quite dispiriting to beta test, find issues, report them and then not have them fixed, and I’m sure you can understand that, at least on some level.
I will be more than happy to volunteer going forward, if it ever becomes possible (or at least I can try, I’m not sure how complex your software is )
Kai, I had a look at the Irish course by sheer chance last night (before I saw your post) and was shocked to find a totally different word order being taught now. Totally different from what was on the PWA before.
Was the old word order wrong? Are both acceptable variants? Different dialects?
I obviously can’t show the old PWA word order. but it was something like, “Tá mé ag iarraidh labhairt Gaeilge.” I know this because I clearly remember noticing (and posting on here) how closely it matched the Manx.
I’m relatively sure that what you’re seeing there in the screenshot (the app app, not the PWA, right?), is the way it’s meant to be - “labhairt Gaeilge” in that context would be wrong. Where’d you see the other one? I don’t think the PWA version has been changed recently, but it hasn’t been proofread (it’s on the same level as all the other PWA courses issues-wise, while the app app one has had a lot of human input)
I’ve been isolated in my course fix bubble for too long, I’m not 100% sure what we’re calling the apps nowadays By app app I mean the app that is in the play and app stores, and by PWA I mean Tom’s new app with the massive amount of new test courses
Sorry for the delay! I’m catching all the fixes and putting them into a list as soon as they come in, and then I’m trying to get through as much of the list as possible every Friday. I’d like to commit to updating you here, but I think that’s too much for me right now…
In some cases the fix is not as easy as it looks on the surface, because it affects or has the potential to affect more things than you think it will, and I’ve had to delay a fix until the next friday a few times so far just because it got too complicated and I ran out of time.
I’ve just scrolled up to see that you’re doing Armenian! In the past few weeks Armenian has been especially difficult (Claude’s best model couldn’t write in Armenian without replacing the text with “delays delays delays”), meaning I had to use a less powerful model to handle everything, which then struggled with stuff that’s usually simple… But it looks like Claude Opus 4.8 (released a few days ago!) no longer has the Armenian corruption! So look forward to quicker fixes soon hopefully
I saw the other word order in the PWA rather than the “app” app (which makes sense if the latter was put together with native speakers and the former with an LLM) some time before March 12th. I was so struck by the fact that it matched the Manx almost identically that I mentioned it in a post to Aran.
If that older PWA course was so wrong, I’m glad I didn’t study it now! Anyway, I have a subscription for the courses on the “app” app, so I’ll use that version if I decide to go back to do a bit of Irish.
I’ve looked some more into fixing the PWA version of Irish using what I learned from the human version, but it seems like it’d disrupt things quite a bit - will talk to Tom about the best way to do it
TTS voices is still the main block for Cornish unfortunately. I could try to get some friends to do some recording though, I think…! I assume the quality will still be quite a lot lower than the irish, even with the new version, but might as well play with it.
That just reminded me to have a look at the Yoruba…
I’m up for volunteering. If you have corrections that are just a matter of input, I’d be interested in learning how to do that. Unfortunately English is my only fully fluent language…
It may be that I’m misremembering then, because the PWA matches the “app” app now. I could have sworn it didn’t before, but I suppose memory can play tricks.
Don’t rush the Cornish BTW. I wasn’t very impressed with the voices that did the previous Cornish lessons if I’m completely honest. If I compare the pronunciation of the people on those audios with, say, Nicholas Williams’ for the same dialect (revived Middle Cornish) or Dan Prohaska’s for the other dialect of revived Late Cornish, the voices on the SSi course just sound like they’re saying Cornish words with English phonology. Best to wait until you have someone who can do it justice IMHO.
Yes, I absolutely understand that, and sympathise - that was why I wanted to get a little extra clarity into the expectations - you can rest assured that every single reported issue is sitting in a digital file on Kai’s digital desk, so they will all eventually get caught
And to put Kai and Tom’s work in a bit more context, the other stuff that we’ve got going on at the moment is:
rebuilding and re-exporting all of the audio files because iOS started using them incorrectly (a mountain of extra work for Kai and the dev team)
continuing to work on improvements for the current production app (which has lots of fiddly little edge cases which cause problems)
the dev team are working on a schools layer based on Tom’s work but adjusted for our central tech stack
we’re trying to improve our tracking and reporting (easy to say, but probably one of the most consistently frustrating parts of my life!)
because we’ve just started tests with a new marketing company, and we’re going to struggle to improve results until we can be a bit clearer about exactly what they are (this swallows up a lot of my thinking space)
Tom’s new app is in continual development, particularly with the listening exercises that are changing fairly often at the moment (in order to make them as high value as possible)
the Popty (course creation) could do with some more focus - this is where the fixes actually need to be done, and Kai’s pretty much on his own there at the moment (although I’m trying to catch some of the ones that crop up with Croatian)
Tom’s also working on a new schools layer for the new app, and on setting up payment structures for our new offer to freelance English teachers (again, this is a real gravity well for attention)
and of course all our usual stuff around dealing with support enquiries and usual office management with salaries and tax and all the wild joys of dealing with Google and Apple and Facebook
So we’re always stretched a little thin. Having said that, we think that the new app and the new schools layer will be in a robust state by the end of the year, and we’re hoping that we’ll have been able to improve turnover somewhat, and that we’ll have more time, energy and resources to put into the free courses at that point
But volunteers! Oh, yes, that would be lovely. @naltun@Greg@meredith-cane could you drop us a line at admin@saysomethingin.com saying you’re volunteering for the Popty? We’ll get you all set up and Kai can show you the ropes
Hi @aran, as a software dev myself, my sympathies!
I’ve just started trying out the Basque course again after a slightly rocky experience a few weeks ago. The latest version is much improved, with (so far) new vocab being introduced properly before being used.
I do have a couple of minor doubts about some of what I’ve seen, but so far I haven’t figured out how to stop the app and capture a screenshot of the words presented with voice 2 in order to check.
What it feels like it needs is a test mode where you can either get a trace of what’s been presented, or the ability to pause when vocab is displayed. You could perhaps give that as an additional option for selected users.
I’m very much a beginner in Basque but I’m happy to volunteer to do more testing/fixing if that’d be a help.
There are very few options out there for learning Basque from English, and this feels like it has enormous potential.
I’m still going through the Basque course when I have a chance, and there is quite a lot that isn’t right in it. I’m not a native speaker but I live in the Basque Country and I have a reasonable conversational level plus I’ve done classes up to B1, so I’m pretty confident with the grammar. It helps that I love grammar
I do not love grammar (which I think is why SSIW worked so well for me). But coming round to the idea that it might be a necessary evil for Basque, as it’s a bit unintuitive coming from English…
I’m lucky that I have friends here that always speak Basque with me, and I have two language exchange partners - people wanting to practise English, so each week I have two sessions where we speak Basque for 30 minutes, then English for 30 minutes. One lives in Irunea (Pamplona) so we do it online, but the other lives here in Gasteiz and we’ve found a quiet café to meet on a Saturday morning. It works well!
Traditional courses are heavily grammar-based, the old tables of verb conjugations etc, so heavy going, and only those who really need Basque for their work tend to keep going. I was told in my first class that I was the only person there because I actually wanted to learn Basque. The others were there because they needed it for their careers. Very sad, I thought.
I’ve put my name down for an intensive B2 level course in September, so that will be interesting!
That sounds perfect for learning. I’d love to spend time in a barnetegi, but won’t be able to for a couple of years at least. I’d need to radically improve my Spanish first, I suspect.
Also, and perhaps crucially, I haven’t mentioned this plan to my wife yet!
.
)
By app app I mean the app that is in the play and app stores, and by PWA I mean Tom’s new app with the massive amount of new test courses
), does Opus 4.8 make Cornish finally feasible or is it a lack of TTS voices that is holding that one back?