If i, if you

Welsh General / Questions
#1

I note (from the South Wales SSIW lessons) that “SEN I” is for “If I” and “SET TI” is for “If you”.

Does it follow that “if we” is “SEN NI”?

How should we say “If He”; “If She” and “If They”

#2

These are the shortened forms - here is the complete set for you so you can see how we get to them (as well as what they are!)

Baswn i > 'swn i (often pronounced 'sen i)
Baset ti > 'set ti
Basai fe/hi > 'sai fe/hi
Basen ni > 'sen i
Basech chi > 'sech chi
Basen nhw > 'sen nhw

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#3

Diolch Siaron. A prompt and informative response as always. Stay safe!

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#4

Hi @david-rees-4

There is bit of north/ south dialect gotcha with this one in that northernern dialect tends to use the abbreviation to indicate the non conditional half of the sentence…

eg. 'Swn for Baswn - I would

The southern course uses the Bydden/ Byddwn variant for the above - I would…

Instead it uses 'Sen to represent the conditional form…

Tasen (/ Taswn) - if I would

In the real world there is no problem.

Rich :slight_smile:

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#5

aaarrghhh! Yes, of course - IF - I must stop rushing my answers and read the question properly! Thanks Rich!

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#6

I find these conditional forms tricky -even spotting them in English. Grammar is a bit like maths for me- I understand it for a split second and then it’s gone again. In the southern course we say ‘dw i’n cofio nhw pan o’n nhw’n ifanc fel se hi’n ddoe.’ Is the ‘se hi’n’ here the she form of the taswn i’n group?

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#7

Yes it it…‘as if it were yesterday’…where the ‘it’ is abstract and so female.

I must admit when I went through the course I said the full version to myself because I couldn’t quite handle that level of abbreviation! :crazy_face:

Rich :slightly_smiling_face:

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#8

So - can I use the following in speech (South Wales)

SEN I’N MOYN - If I want

SET TI’N MOYN - If you want

SECH CHI’N MOYN - if you want (plural/polite)

SAI FE’N MOYN - If he wants

SAI HI’N MOYN - If she wants

SEN NI’N MOYN - If we want

SEN NHW’N MOYN - If they want

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#9

Yep! :slight_smile:

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#10

…you will often see the ‘ai’ in the he/she form replaced by just ‘e’ - as per "fel ‘se hi’n ddoe’.

When people say they use the ‘e’ endings this is what they mean - w and ai change - and an ‘e’ is there instead in the various permutations.

Rich :slight_smile:

#11

Diolch Siaron :+1:

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#12

Thanks Rich. I can see where the ai changes. Can you give me some examples of the w changing

#13

Sorry @david-rees-4 that probably was a confusing comment(!)

I meant in the ‘standard’ endings the ‘I’ form has a ‘w’, and this is replaced with an ‘e’ with the ‘e’ endings, so…

Taswn i’n moyn or 'swn i’n moyn

Becomes…

Tasen i’n moyn o’r 'sen i’n moyn

…you already had this tweak of course.

Rich :slight_smile:

#14

It’s an interesting one isn’t it. The sentences where there are the conditional pairs are tricky because the English translation of the conditional part varies a lot eg.

If you ran quickly I would run quickly too
If you were to run quickly I would run quickly too
If you would run quickly I would run quickly too
If you run quickly I would run quickly too

So it’s noticing the If in the first clause and checking for a ‘would’ in the second (in this example) :crazy_face:

Rich :slightly_smiling_face:

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#15

Thanks for clearing that up Rich

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