You’re obviously doing the southern course, up north we say “dwi angen”. This may sound like a cop out (should that be one word?) but trust the course, don’t worry about whether it’s correct or not. When I started doing the course my dad would always say things were wrong and I thought the course was leading me astray, but how wrong I was. Follow the course, don’t check up on things and you will learn how to speak Welsh in one certain dialect which you can hone to suit at a later date.
The difference between a “need” and a “want” is not always clear, and it can be, on the surface, even a little more blurry in Welsh - but as always, context should make it clear!
In my experience the use of these things isn’t as clearly “north/south” or belonging to particular dialects as is sometimes said.
They are used in different ways, so it is not surprising you get different answers from different places!
Easier than typing out again on tiny keyboard, here’s a cut and paste job from another thread -
"Moyn is used alongside eisiau. It is localised, but like most dialect words it is not a “use one or the other” things.
How “eisiau”, “rhaid” and “moyn” are used, crossing over each other, replacing each other and blurring the meaning between “want” and “need” change from person to person as well as place to place.
This actually makes it easier- use any one confidently enough where the context makes it clear what you mean, and you will sound natural! "
‘mae eisiau i fi’ comes up with ‘he wants me’ on google translate (good to know, but not the answer I was looking for! ;))
To be honest I have had the same problem ElenTylwythTeg - and google or other translation apps can be helpful if you are looking for a particular word, but I am assuming that when something is a dialect way of saying something, it doesn’t necessarily translate very well! Which is why we are told, nooo don’t look it up, trust the course and it will come naturally
And it does! Although, I have just finished the final challenge of level 1, and I still struggle with certain things, and this is one of them - remembering all the different but similar things - mae eisiau fi or gwell i fi or mae rhaid i fi … And one way to try and figure it out on the fly is to stick it in a translator as an aid to memory - until the answer you get out makes no sense, anyway!
So what do you do, when the only other option is to keep going over the same lesson til you get it, which is not really recommended? Is there really a problem with using other sources, or do you have to be a SSiW purist to get the most out of it?
I guess one answer is practice in person, and then it will stick in my head more - but I have not had much success with that so far - but that is a question for another thread!
Falle, mae ishe i chi gyd ei fficso fe - (should it have ei, yn or nowt at all before fficso? and is fficso allowed)
I just suggested edits on google translate for mae eisiau i fi and mae ishe i fi for I need. First time I have done that and I suppose I shouldn’t really as a non-Welsh speaker, but confident enough here to go for it.
I have tried Google translate in the past putting in a Welsh or English sentence to be translated into Dutch (my first language) . I found that it is ok to use as a guide, but is by no means perfect, and at times comes up with some very peculiar translations, so my advice is yes, use Google Translate as a helping hand, but be aware that the result may not always be reliable.
Dim byd newydd i fi yno, yntefe. dw i 'di ffindo “sefydlogi” a “trwsio” ond sai’n gwybod sut i wneud nhw achos fi 'di byth yn clywed nhw. That’s where SSIW works, because I will use a word once I’ve heard it being spoken, but if I’ve only read it in a formal book or found it in a dictionary then I’m very unlikely to be confident of the context and use.
Yeah, I hate to say it but dictionaries in Wales have always been a bit odd (until comparatively recently).
Something like Y Geiriadur Mawr was based on a Welsh dictionary for Schools along with a dictionary for obsolete words in Welsh, giving it a rather strange atmosphere.
(though Meurig Evans, one of the blokes who wrote it, was apparently a very approachable man to his pupils and an able teacher of Welsh .)
The various reincarnations of the “Collins Gem” dictionary were rather hit and miss, as well.
There are some dictionaries I found I could usually trust though - (usually )
Geriadur yr Academi is a good one, if a little overpowering - giving so many words in different contexts is its strength and weakness, and it says if something is dialectical, often heard in the South, literary, etc.
I’ve certainly had more hits than misses through using it! Available for free online, yay!
Gareth King’s dictionary, Oxford Pocket Modern Welsh of course. Less words (necessarily! for a real portable paper work!) but giving context, sometimes in quite some detail.
Bit obscure, “Blas yr Iaith Cwmderi” I found very useful indeed.Giving dialectical differences in word use,
Various writing styles give various percentages of words likely to be heard in your area in a conversation in the pub, certainly!
I did find though (as you say) that reading eg stories in books and stuff gave me more hits than misses in terms of other people understanding when compared to dictionaries (other than the ones mentioned above) when I tried words and forms out in conversation, better than dictionaries, as they were given in context.
And it’s all in Welsh! But it’s strength is giving a comparative list of words as used naturally and colloquially in the north and south, and any examples given are generally very short and simple. as long as the sight of the written word in Welsh doesn’t send you running, you should be ok! (“you” meaning “one” )
Edit- and it’s “Blas ar Iaith Cwmderi”, for anyone interested. Oops!
If only! The pricing system on Amazon and ebay goes insane sometimes, especially with obscure stuff. I think either computers or people who know nothing follow a first insane price put up for some reason (randomly, some weird computer program algorithm, whatever.)
Leave longer and longer gaps between when you go back to that lesson, and try to get yourself into conversations, however tough it is to find them - that’s what will cure it all for you in the end - and try not to worry about any individual bit of the language…
Er, yeah, that’s a very good example of Google translate being utterly and completely wrong…
Thanks @aran OK well - I am doing blocks of 5, then repeating once before moving on, which has been working in most cases. But there are always some stubborn things that don’t stick. Also - when I am sat around waiting or whatever, I like to try and construct sentences in Welsh - I find this helps cement things in, and I also do remember those words/phrases better when they pop up again in a challenge. Where I have been using google etc is when I can’t quite remember if something is correct - I look up the Welsh to check my answers, so to speak… and yes sometimes it is spectacularly wrong! But it’s useful as a prompt if you already know what you are looking for…
Anyway, I am having fun and learning new stuff, so it’s all good