Partly for that sort of reason, I think it should be standard practice for people to put their location (country), and perhaps native language, in their profile, to give a bit more context, especially in a language-oriented forum. However, what with modern concerns about privacy, coupled with unfamiliarity with the technical aspects of a forum that is new to one, it tends not to happen.
In 7 years, I haven’t seen that happen on the forum. The only thing I’ve seen happen (VERY occasionally) is people who aren’t willing to make the unusual effort (for the internet) to be pointedly polite and friendly in the their discussions - and those people eventually have to leave us.
But we have hosted deep and interesting discussions on a number of thorny topics over the years - and the only thing necessary for that to continue to happen is for people to understand that (especially for thorny topics) they need to contribute with overt friendliness and respect for the other person. When that happens, everything else is okay.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply @henddraig
I just couldn’t follow your link between not being rude and “brexit” and “he-who-shan’t-be named.”
I agree, of course, that disgreements and misunderstandings can and should be resolved by discussion, but I much prefer to do this face to face. In my long experience of using the internet and its precursors, I have very rarely found that issues can be resolved or clarified via digital media. (Witness this post )
I have far more often seen prejudices reinforced, hatred promoted and inanity amplified. (Which, to my mind, is more likely to lead to disastrous voting)
I fully realise that my opinion is not shared by everyone or perhaps anyone, and I realise also that my jealous view of this forum as a haven from contention may well be a minority one. If I’m in too small a minority, I’ll do the honourable thing … again
No, it’s not - it’s the majority view, and it’s the management view too, and it’s how things will be…
We’ve always tried to make room for a wide range of discussions - but the bottom line for us is that this is a support forum for Welsh learners, and no discussion in here is more important than that.
To the extent that people can discuss matters in a calm and friendly manner, showing respect for everyone involved in the discussion, and making it all clear enough to get over the ‘text only’ barrier, we’ll continue to host and enjoy those discussions.
But we do not see them as a primary focus of this community, and we will not risk any of the core values of the community in order to allow discussions which fail to maintain these unusually high standards.
Point taken. If anyone goes, me!
I hope that won’t happen…
Debate is healthy. Insults are.not. I’m not saying I always get it right. For sure I dont.
However lack of debate is surely destructive also.
The key word is i think respect. People have diferent opinions on many things. My own tongue in cheek nationalism was clearly not to some people’s tastes. No problem. I have another outlet for that.
A sugar coated forum may well be what some want. A more open forum may be what others want. Somewhere in the middle lies the balance.
Ultimately the person who runs the forum is entitled to do with it as they see fit and i’m sure takes the views of all into consideration.
However, i am of the opinion that there have been a few (not many) instances where some very contentious opinions have been aired and some very innocent views resulted in new posters getting flamed. One poor soul once got a great deal of criticism for complaining about the cost of SSIW. I believe it was a genuine mistake. I ask that those of you who are championing respect ask yourselves whether or not you too (as indeed I) have ever posted something others may take umbrage over.
We all can learn and move forward. But lets please not get too sanctimonious about things. 99.9% of the time there are no problems. Lets not get too carried away and cause more problems than are being solved.
12 posts were split to a new topic: The gradual slide off-topic in the ‘banned’ thread (and some interesting stuff about autism)
I hope that won’t happen…
A sugar coated forum may well be what some want.
Has anyone proposed this?
Interesting you should mention its precursors. Were you in academia or research? I worked for a public sector scientific research lab, closely connected with academia, and by the nature of things, we were early users (pioneers even) of computer networks, whose use soon branched out beyond pure data transfer and into personal communications, including email and interactive chat, newsgroups and the like. Janet, Bitnet, Earn…may be names familiar to you.
Anyway, it soon became very apparent that it was extremely hard to “set the right tone” in text-based discussions. This was what led to the invention of the smiley - now much more sophisticated of course, but with the same end in view.
Some people were quite good at adapting to this sort of electronic communication, and others less so. When this sort of communication was limited to academic scientific etc, circles, the “problem” was more containable. Of course, things have moved on a long way since then, in some ways for the better, but better technology has not solved the basic problem that anything other than face to face communication can be so easily misunderstood, and problems can soon escalate.
(Skype is an excellent compromise, although also not perfect).
Not quite to the point, I note with some regret, that the art of the long, literate and interesting email discussion is dying the death almost more quickly than the art of conventional letter-writing. I assume this can only be because people now email by phone and not sit-down keyboard devices (and are probably doing it “on the hoof”, or almost), and also perhaps in some haste.
And so back to the point, forum response are also now more often made in haste, “on the hoof”, and that also may contribute to some of the problems.
hasn’t been much on the forum of late that I felt I could really contribute too
That’s never stopped me.
No, it’s not - not for us, not here. We’ve had longish patches over the years where for one reason or another, there hasn’t been much serious debate going on - which is fine. This is a support forum, first, foremost and always. We can, if necessary, live without debate, but we cannot live without kind, friendly support.
Yes. Sugar-coated is what we have always wanted to be, what we have always (barring brief interruptions) managed to be, and what we will always want to be. Sugar-coated but calorie-free, it doesn’t get much better…
When you say something like that, Pete, plenty of people will read it and immediately think ‘Am I one of the people he thinks is sanctimonious?’. It brings a kind of accusation into the forum, which is exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid. This sort of stuff needs super-careful phrasing.
I’m leading on this, Pete, and I’m confident that this discussion has arisen because we HAVE had some problems in the forum recently. Here’s hoping I won’t get ‘carried away and cause more problems’, but since what I’m intending to do with this is exactly the same as I’ve been doing with the forum for the last 7 years, it should follow the same pattern that has worked successfully for us in that time (although of course I understand it may well seem different/challenging to anyone who hasn’t been with us for all that time).
I would like to add to this talk.
I have been learning through SSIW for about 8 months.I joined partly as the Forum was so friendly.
The Forum provides threads on all kinds of things - such as not understanding a particular word, grammer stuff, linguistic theorys and ‘breakthrough moments’ - such as a first long conversation in Cymraeg. Many of the clever stuff I don’t follow as it is beyond me.
But I would like to say if you know 100 words more than me or can understand how to say things properly or know what a verbnoun is than you have more power. This power dynamic is happening today. Someone will join who has only done one lesson and that means that if you know more you have more power. This situation will happen all the time. So as you feel more confident remember your first day here.
I was talking to a fella who said he went to a group that concentrated on grammer and the written - and they barely strung 4 words together in spoken iaith (language). Here we say - get out, do it, relax over trieglo (mutation), if they understand your off and running. And I think the Forum is important for many of us in getting that attitude.
Anyway thats all a bit serious, so how am I going? Well, thanks for asking, your all so friendly! Great. The course works well. And my boy (13 years old) is doing the course too. So we are moving to a kind of Kriol Gobeith - what is Kriol Gobeith I hear you ask. Well Kriol is a when languages are mixed together - we have a Kriol in Australia of English and some Aboriginal languages, and Gobeith means hope.So Kriol Gobeith is where me and my boy - and sometimes my littlest girl try as much Cymraeg in our English as possible and hope it makes sense. (Our surname is Hope also so its also a little like saying ’ mishmash family language’)
Hwyl mawr (big fun)
That sounds exactly like the kind of brilliant playful approach that can work superbly with kids…
@Stevo … I don’t remember seeing you here posting yet so I’d say Welcome despite you’re here already for approx a year …
Ahh, according to forum name I thought I finally have found one soul on here from my area or at least near to it … So, since you say you’re from Australia, my search continues.
It’s great to hear how you in your family are learning Cymraeg and there’s no doubt you’ll be in short time prety much Cymraeg speaking family which makes me extreamly happy.
And yes … we should all remember our first day on here or when starting learning. I surely do remember them occassions both.
You have probably signed the petition, but I’ve sent you an invite in case you haven’t! If you have, diolch! If you haven’t and value TV in Cymraeg, please do! Oh, and like Tatjana, I say, Croeso!!
i’m very grateful for this post. i lurk a lot and don’t post anymore, and i had noticed the little spike in negative behavior. i’ve always found this place to be a little safehaven online, much like everyone else here, and i’m glad that there’s a huge effort to keep it that way. thanks, guys!
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