The Reverend James has been the salvation of many a Bootcampwr!
We keep tellin’ the locals up 'ere - Yorkshire - that it may very well be ‘God’s Own Country’ but…ond ni siarad mae’n iaith o nefoedd
Huw, I googled The Lords Prayer in Welsh and it came up with Y Nef. This morning in church (Church in Wales, Anglican), both versions of the prayer, modern and older, use Y Nef, in the service book.
Huw, I googled The Lords Prayer in Welsh and it came up with Y Nef. This morning in church (Church in Wales, Anglican), both versions of the prayer, modern and older, use Y Nef, in the service book.
I did the same, Margaret and I see what’s happening…I think.
The first line: “Our father who art in heaven” is (as far as I can see) always translated as “Ein Tad yn y nefoedd”
BUT the fourth line “In earth as it is in heaven” is translated as “ar y ddaear fel yn y nef”. **
As someone else has pointed out, Y nefoedd is the plural of y nef.
To summarise - the first occurrence in the Welsh translation is translated by Y nefoedd whereas the second is translated by Y nef.
I’d be interested to hear if you’ve ever found the first line to be translated by “Ein Tad yn y nef”
** Interestingly this exact pattern is found in the French and Latin versions. I’ve no idea why. I guess we’d have to go back to the Hebrew text or even the original Aramaic to find out why. 
Wouldn’t the original have been written in Greek, since that was the primary language of the New Testament?
Indeed it was, there was a discussion about that earlier in this thread, and why it might have become confused. But really, this thread is about Welsh being spoken in heaven - or should it be the heavens?
If you accept this is “The Lord’s” Prayer I guess the original was Aramaic
To be fair, it was probably intended to be an example of making a prayer up on the spot, because that will always be more sincere than repeating a prayer by rote. So naturally, we repeat that prayer by rote instead.
But that’s probably a discussion for another forum on another day…