Best not mix rhewgell with rhywgell then!
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Perhaps not. More embarrassing than Amlosgfa and Amgueddfa methinks.
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But much more fun 
.
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Amlosgfa David Lloyd George. Dw iān licio fo. Neu tĆ¢n David Lloyd George. Mae rhaid i ni ganu ākeep the home fires burningā¦ā
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A case of Ā“spontaneous combustionĀ“ ??
A beth ydi hynny yn y Gymraeg ā¦ hmm ā¦ hunan hylosgiad o bosib ??
mae honna yn pris rhesymol, dw iān meddwl.
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As Margaret says, at least you were understood, so maybe more of a sigh, than a āgrrrā is in order.
On the other hand, some time back, a lot of people responded to a cry for help that reached this forum, and agreed to pay something each month, to help Saith Seren to survive, and Iām very glad to say that (so far) it has done so. The fact that it has survived so far is reward enough, and we donāt want anything in return, but the understanding was that it was a place that was supporting the Welsh language. Itās one thing if the customers arenāt speaking Welsh, but itās quite another if the staff arenāt. So perhaps you are not entirely wrong in feeling a little cross.
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Oh not crossā¦just disappointed or frustrated. Especially as this week the mini bootcamp has come together with 8 people going and a lovely three hour plus chat with @margaretnock in Conwy.
I think the lack of any welsh response just surprised me.
Oh well. Even trying was a step forward!
At the Mochyn Du, Caffi Bodlon and Siop Bodlon in Cardiff youāll very rarely hear prices in Welsh. I found the same in Weat Wales. Popeth yn Gymraeg, ond yr pris yn saesneg.
Absolutely, as mentioned above. The disappointment was with the whole response and the rest of the responses being in English.
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I feel that pain! But as has been said, he was understood and didnāt get a negative reaction so thatās a positive! Always good to plough on. I have a friend who always says sheās really impressed Iāve learnt Welsh but often replies to my Welsh in English. The reason she gives (and she does eventually speak in Welsh but the conversations are very mixed) is that her and my finacĆ©e have always spoken in English (both Welsh speakers) and therefore she finds it hard to switch.
Today my finacĆ©e and I have travelled to London because weāre off on holiday tomorrow. On the megabus we largely spoke in Welsh together (Iād say 90%). Interestingly it was often her that slipped into English first.
As Cat once said to me (Dafydd, The voice of the Southern Course), the more you can switch between the two the better your Welsh will become.
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I switch between English and Welsh with the Welsh speaking friends and family I speak to, as they ofte/sometimes (depending) do with each other, certainly! And it is certainly close family where the change to speaking Welsh is the least likely to commonly happen, absolutely.
I said above that I am a great believer in people speaking whatever language they feel like speaking, and that normally I shy well away from saying people āshouldā speak Welsh.
But this is a Welsh centre which is, I have the impression, set up and funded to promote and make it easier for people to do such a thing. And many peopleās only contact with the centre will be speaking with the person behind the counter. Itās only because of that that I find it disappointing.
Having said that, I agree with everything you said!
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I somewhat disagree. A wholly English response to a wholly Welsh request is in my opinion a little negative.
Especially in a place that promotes Welsh.
She may granted have heard me speak to my son in English or to the others at the bar who spoke English to me. But I asked in Welsh, said thank you in Welsh etc and even when she brought the food over spoke in English.
Ok I may well have learner tattooed on my forehead but to me this was really disappointing. She understood yes, but if so why ask me in English if I didnāt want pickle on my sandwich.
The place is frequented by learners at times. Previously the barman there patiently listened to my appalling attempts when talking to @gruntius
Sorry if Iām sounding frustrated but I must have over the summer tried Welsh on a number of occasions only to be faced with a blank or a response in English. Thank goodness for @margaretnock who so far has put with me for over 4 hours this past coule of weeks!
My experience is; find positives where you can. Trying to speak Welsh can be extremely frustrating because of the prevalence of English (I live in Cardiff).
I canāt comment on why this service was the way it was, my experience is that people often reply in English automatically (itās true for me as a learner, and my fiancĆ©e and her family who are all first language). Itās a comfort thing and a sign of which language they think in.
Try not to let it frustrate, thatās why I look for the positives. To me a negative reaction is one of disdain or anger. If every time Iām spoken to in English in response to Welsh I feel negative, I would be a very negative person by now.
Also, in my experience, the more you return and plough on the more likely they are to respond in Welsh. Thatās happened to me in the Mochyn with one particular bar man. Itās a running joke now because of how often it was him (a native speaker) who switched to English.
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Oh its fineā¦like i said ive spoken with Margaret for over four hours recently. Ive also been to two welsh meets last month and spoken welsh in a local shop.
I watch a bit of welsh tv say once a week. I have radio cymru on in the car. I am going back over cwrs 3 at the moment too and have the welsh weekend to look foward to.
My point is or was that if a stranger speaks welsh in a place that promotes welsh surely the staff should respond in welsh. Otherwise whats the point of the place?
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Yes, thatās what I myself read your reaction as being. For a particular place like this. I certainly didnāt take it as you felt like that everytime someone responded in English. And good to hear you are enjoying the positive side of Welsh!
A positive attitude is always good for your well being. But how passionately and what way people feel about something is of course up to them.
However you cut it, though, in this particular case your reaction is, I would say, not only justified but constructive.
[ Socially, I normally simply fall into speaking Welsh or English depending on how I feel and how the other person feels, and it doesnāt affect how negative or positive I feel at all. This though, is a centre set up to promote and facilitate the use of Welsh.]
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Just a message of support, @petermescall - Iām completely with you on this one.
The person who served you at Saith Seren obviously understood Cymraeg, so why on earth didnāt she try to respond to you likewise - however limited her Cymraeg may have been, and however short her response? For example, when you thanked her in Cymraeg, why couldnāt she have just responded āCroesoā instead of āno problemā? Presumably her Welsh vocabulary extends to that one word!
Iām sure this sort of thing happens quite often in Wales, but surely Saith Seren is a special case - for the reasons you have given. If it is a place which promotes Welsh and is supposed to be a Welsh cultural centre, it should be an absolute requirement for staff to at least try to speak the basics of the language.
Your experience makes quite depressing reading- particularly, perhaps, for those SSiWers making a monthly financial contribution to keep Saith Seren afloat!
Hwyl
Gavin
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I can understand the frustration. However, we live in a bilingual society, so when talking with strangers we canāt know peopleās language history and we are all different. We donāt know this particular waitress, itās quite possible that she is a learner herself and may have the confidence issues we all have. She is also in a service role, her prime role is to serve customers, not to speak Welsh, so there is a professional pressure to provide good customer service and be clear (rather than be free to make mistakes in her Welsh) perhaps there are issues of not being confident enough yet to use Welsh in that role all of the time (such as brain melt from speaking lots of Welsh), even if that is sometimes frustrating to learners keen to use their Welsh. So when bringing over the sandwiches, she wasnāt to know if the rest of your group were Welsh speakers. Customer service jobs are tough, because on a long shift itās impossible to be perfect and bright
with every customer, more so when there are two languages with customers with different levels of ability in Welsh.
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Iām not frustrated, just disappointed that it happened in a place such as this. I use Welsh and English when talking to friends and family socially, when talking to people in the service industry. I frequently switch between the two. I very rarely, if ever, make a āpointā of speaking one language or the other for its own sake.
I am aware of the feelings that go behind and with people speaking one language or the other, in both areas where a minority of people speak Welsh and a majority speak Welsh, having had well established homes and knowing people well in both.
I am very much of the opinion that people should speak whatever language they please, and am normally opposed to saying or implying that someone " should" speak Welsh.
If someone has a job in a āWelsh centreā, a Welsh centre which gets money from people to promote the Welsh language and make speaking it easier in the building, and they are front of house staff, being sometimes the only contact people will have with such a place, they should make an effort to reply in Welsh when someone speaks in Welsh.
Otherwise yes, what is the point of funding the place?
[For example, such things as the Monday night Welsh practice groups could be (and such things are) run elsewhere at no cost. I know even in āEnglish language placesā like Swansea, you could āevenā find Welsh speaking bar staff in pubs (who seemed to make an effort to speak to all of us in Welsh without being asked when they knew we were a Welsh language practice group) if you searched with a fair degree of success (though I never chased them, as it were.)]
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I think the saith seren concept is great. And it would be nice to see it extended to other towns in wales.
However i stand by my point that she clearly understood my order so to reply in English was inappropriate. If she wasnt comfortable speaking in welsh i have no problem with that but in a customer facing role an explanation would have been nice.
Previously i have in pubs, shops and cafes asked for things in welsh. Where it is a welsh speaker they have responsed in welsh. Where they are English speakers they usually aologise and respond in English.
In a place that promotes the welsh language i find this shocking that she said NOTHING in welsh. No diolch, no croeso, nothing. Three times i engaged with her in welsh, never once starting a sentence in English.
If this were to be the norm there would be no point in Saith Seren. People might as well meet at wetherspoons!
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