Double ch double ll

Welsh General / Questions
#1

I just ran through Level 2, Challenge 13 and I think I might be overthinking the pronunciation of word pairings such as oeddech chi and ddudoch chi. There are two ch sounds, one right after the other. Also, I have seen words that have two LL, one right after the other, so the same question applies in this case also. Does one pause between the first and second and pronounce them both? It’s hard for me to hear the distinction. In my training as a singer, if this happens in lyrics, the first letter becomes nearly silent and the sound is pushed forward to the second letter. Lifeline plis. Diolch.

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#2

Hi Anne :slight_smile:

With the “ch” repetition they’ll often run into each other. So it’ll sound like “oeddechi” or “ddudochi”. You also get this with “dach chi” to the point that I’ve seen a lot of people write, informally, “da chi”.
Have you got an example of the repetition of “ll”? I can’t think of one to help sorry!

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#3

With the Eisteddfod coming up, Pabell Llên springs to mind. The two LLs also pretty much run into each other in normal speech but maybe not quite so tightly as the CHs do.

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#4

What you’re hearing is ‘pabell lên’… :wink: Nigh on impossible to pick out, mind…

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#5

Listen to any video on how to pronounce “Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch”! You’ll find the double "LL"in there somewhere, about half an hour along it…

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#6

Only half an hour? I thought it was more like two or three hours. :thinking:

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#7

Thank you everyone. It all makes sense. And yes, Llanfair…siliogogogoch did come to mind when I thought of the double, double L.

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#8

Llanfair Pwyllgwyngyll as it was originally before it got lengthened in the 19th century. It’s a bit of an artificial one the ll following ll in one word.

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#9

Yes, definitely heard Pebell Llen as len today. Vety clearly on Radio Cymry. Just thinking thats harder to say than pabell llen in a way as you already have the ll going.

Actually, if anything the semi Anglicised place names are harder. I’m thinking, Roch Street in Abertillery. It just doesn’t flow. Also the made up Loch Linnhe. OK thats not in Wales, but even so, why did they change it? The one I can never feel comfortable saying is Pendine. Is it like Tyne or teen :grin:.

#10

Just go for Pentywyn :wink:

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#11

Pabell is benywaidd so it’s actually Pabell Len, that was Aran’s point I think.

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#12

and yet … Pabell Lles

#13

Pabell can be either gwrywaidd or benywaidd.

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