I’m learning Spanish rather than Welsh now but posting this in the Welsh forum as the Spanish one is effectively dead.
Have found this with every language I’ve tried learning, but I’m especially struggling with Spanish.
Does anyone else feel like the process is just so stressful? Trying to memorise new things, comparing yourself to natives and other learners, always getting things wrong, being frustrated, not understanding etc. etc.?
I’ve found that SSi is full of people who are successful language learners who seem to breeze along and actually enjoy the process. I want to become that type of learner!
If it makes you feel any better, I started learning Welsh in 1998, and I’m still not fluent. I spent a lot of time not actually learning anything – years on the trot. I recommitted to learning about four years ago, and make sure that I do a little bit every day, even if that’s just saying “diolch” or “croeso”.
There will always be people who are further along in their learning journey than you, but there are also always people who’ve only just started. Some people seem to become fluent in no time at all, some of us are slow coaches who take forever.
They say comparison is the thief of joy, and they are right, so try not to compare yourself to anyone. Just look at the progress you’ve made – there was a time you knew no Spanish, and now you know some Spanish, and that’s worth celebrating.
I think that the trick is to find a process that you really do enjoy, and that might take a bit of trial and error. I struggled in the early days because, despite buying all the grammar books available, I rarely read them. I always learnt more by writing than by reading grammar books, because I have a terrible memory so I need to use something over and over and over again before it sticks.
So experiment, find out what you enjoy doing, and focus on doing that. And celebrate every little win, because that will also help you become the kind of learner who enjoys the process!
Hola
Im in a similar position with Spanish. I successfully learned and teach Irish as a mature adult. It obviously helped living in Ireland but still initially struggled to get practicing outside of the classes. Although eventually going on week long courses and doing diploma and degree. Welsh initially difficult too with only SSIW, but i dived right into the zoom sessions, forming a fantastic WhatsApp group chat to practice, read, write. So had lot’s of activities. Not so much now with Spanish apart from the challenges. Now i have an ongoing Spanish class, bought some books, have an online Spanish Irish and Spanish practice buddy from Texas. But still i can’t seem to get over the line and get a solid grasp. So yes im also feeling despondent. But iv been to Spain. And im going again next month so hopefully more chances to practice. And Spanish class is going to Spain in September for a week. So yeah i have opportunities. But my Irish and Cymraeg didn’t seem so troublesome for this extended period. But iv been here before with Gaeilge and Cymraeg. So i kinda know the territory and ill most definitely hang in there. As i have the strong belief that i only “Wont learn If i Stop” .
I have to remind myself that I am doing this for fun and for my brain.
I explained to someone that it feels like I’ve applied and been given a top Welsh high court job. The problem being that I lied on the application and said I was fluent, and I am due to start in three days!!!
That is the level of pressure I was putting on myself . I have relaxed a little over time. Now I worry about finishing the course ( what then?,), not finishing the course ( what then!). Also whether I will ever be brave enough to speak to another person without resorting to putting a paper bag over my head.
Thank you, it’s good to hear more realistic stories of learning for a change!
Unfortunately there are no language courses in my area, other than Welsh, although I’m moving soon [oh did I mention. That getting evicted and changing jobs might be having an effect on my brain’s capacity to take in complex sentences with no grammatical explanations? :)] so may be able to get on a course in the new place.
I use automagic where you just work your way through. I too struggled with feeling I have to learn this ‘properly’ before moving on, but the system seems to work well. The regular repetition system keeps moving to sustain interest while referring back to previous sentences, forcing me to recall.
A while ago I started doing the old challenges, I started from scratch alongside automagic. Gradually I caught up to where I was on auto, now I go back every few days and do an old challenge, it provides me with another run through. Also with auto I like to see the written sentence, but on the challenge, listening provides a different discipline.
To be honest i dont think that Spanish is any harder than Irish or Cymraeg. To be fair i think that it’s actually easier with no mutations. But learning any language will ultimately difficult by default. As each has it’s own individual idiosyncrasies. I guess personally as you collect a few languages its not that the various languages are more difficult or easier. You just understand yourself and your learning process better. With Irish and Cymraeg i had regular speaking practice from the start. With Spanish i find i learn challenge 1, 2, 3 etc and by the time i reach the dizziness of challenge 9 , 15 etc the starting challenges have almost been buried. Primarily because of lack of use. With Irish i attended a daily class and eventually social events and immersion weeks/ weekend’s. With Cymraeg i attended regular zoom sessions q&a and beginners chats. All which included repetitively using basics and gradually increasing. Unfortunately 1 Spanish class a week is insufficient to instill confidence and improvement.
It’s not uncommon for people to feel they need to repeat the lessons. One system that works well for some is to do a new lesson twice - once using the Pause to get more time, then again without the Pause, pushing yourself to say ‘something’ in the gaps but not worrying about getting it all out.
Then go on to the next lesson and do the same. After doing 5 like that, go back and run through those 5 again. It’s generally a surprise to find how much better you can do them the second time through, and if you need to do it a 3rd time to have the confidence to push on, then there’s no reason not to do that.
Everyone is an individual, and while the lessons do have built in spaced repetition to help you, if you need to go a little more slowly, or have a little more repetition, that’s totally fine. It’s not a race, and you’ll make progress in your own way.
I’ve had a go at using AutoMagic a few times as I like seeing it written down too, but I just can’t work out how to use it at all. After around 5 minutes it cuts off, and going back to repeat give me totally different sentences.
The ‘Revisit’ option in the latest app takes you back 1 Introduction item, so you can hear what was introduced previously and come forward again with the practice sentences.
The AutoMagic prototype gives random practice sentences of recently presented material.
For what it’s worth, I did a degree in modern languages (stressful BUT enjoyable) and have gone on to learn other languages, all with their unique stresses and frustrations. There is no real “breezing along”, all of the people you mention are putting in hard work - whether they try to hide it like the kids at school who say “I’ve done no preparation for this test” (when really they have) or just that they are not getting stressed about it, doesn’t really matter.
The people who get themselves into the biggest flap I find are those who can’t handle the vagueness that comes with certain aspects of any language (among or amongst? that or which?!) - just don’t focus on the tiniest edge cases and it will be OK, just be happy with a general answer and move on.
I think what comes with time is simply not caring so much about mistakes and lowering expectations - you can’t expect to speak at the same level as you do in English (with however many years of speaking it all day every day, full-time education, reading, etc.) in Spanish for a good few years after starting learning it intensively, it’s just not possible.
Plus, if you learn a Romance language like Spanish, you can get into Italian, Portuguese, French, Romanian without too much difficulty as the grammar is rather similar, so don’t discount that fact, too.
Stay with it, don’t be hard on yourself, enjoy making mistakes as they are often funny and can also be the best type of learning.
The more time I’ve spent learning, the less I worry about making mistakes (I’ve just got used to making them), and that has a huge impact on how much less stressed I am about my learning. I do a little bit every day, and I make progress slowly but surely. And that’s fine.
David Stifter, who’s professor of Old Irish at Maynooth, actually reckons that Spanish is the best language to use to explain about mutations because it does have them (kind of) - but they’re still at the stage of being conditioned phonetically, rather than by grammar or syntax. Example - ‘un diccionario’ vs ‘mi diccionario’: if I’m allowed to use Welsh spelling, the first dictionary begins with a ‘d’, but the second one with an ‘dd’. This sort of thing is exactly where lenition/treiglad meddal come from!
Hmmm. I agree with you, however it’s easier said than done to not be too hard on myself and to enjoy mistakes isn’t it? Native speaker ‘feedback’ when learning before did a lot to put me off speaking until I knew I could do it perfectly.
Maybe I simply don’t put enough effort in. I try to do at least 45 minutes a day. Probably very little compared to what a lot of people on here are doing.
Interesting. “Dónde” is also very fluid in pronunciation like that, some cases one of the d s is voiced, other times not. I had never thought of terming them as mutations before though (I did my undergraduate degree in Spanish and French, mutations never came up, but I see it now you say it)
. I have relaxed a little over time. Now I worry about finishing the course ( what then?,), not finishing the course ( what then!). Also whether I will ever be brave enough to speak to another person without resorting to putting a paper bag over my head.