I replied no. I’m happy, and indeed proud, to label myself as a learner of Welsh because I believe strongly in lifelong learning, and am still learning new bits and pieces of my first language almost every day.
Whether I’d count as a Welsh speaker, I’d leave to others to decide, but I think this question is really more relevant to those who live in Wales, and who in principle, could find opportunities to speak it most days without contrivance. Having said that, I know there are many competent speakers here who do not in fact live in Wales.
I feel much the same. I’ve been at this quite some time but I don’t think I’d ever regard myself as a Welsh speaker. Although I’m a Yorky/Welsh cross, the Welsh cultural bit never made an appearance and I think that lacking it still makes me feel like a ‘visitor’. Usually when I speak Welsh, I’m conscious of my doing so with. West Riding accent, even though I haven’t lived there for over 40 years. Not sure how I’d get past that, but it makes it difficult to see myself as a ‘speaker’ rather than as some who can speak some Welsh. And I am grateful at least for having got that far.
I clicked on yes. In spite of an initial hesitation because of my limited ability, I felt that to be the most honest answer. If I can speak more that one sentence in in any language, eg German, French etc, then I must be a speaker. I don’t necessarily see the need to live in Germany to qualify, although I can’t deny that it would be a great help. Why make an exception for Welsh?
Funnily enough, @netmouse, when I started reading your post (well done by the way), I imagined that you were going to say something like -
The first time that they swam, they became swimmers, rather than just swimming learners. That’s were I am with Welsh. A sort of water-wing speaker
I suspect that you are. I seem to remember many conversations with you, and whilst a smattering of English appears now and then (when I can’t help it) those were all in Welsh.
I agree about the feeling of being a learner though - whereas once it meant something negative to me, now I’m proud to learn this stuff.
I hear what you’re saying about the SSiW challenges always getting tougher, @Y_Ddraig_Las. What’s helped me, immeasurably, is to go back and redo levels one and two. It was such an eye-opener to be able to just zing through some of those challenges without thinking about it, when they’d been so difficult the first time through. I really think that anyone who finishes level 2 should redo level 1 and the same with redoing level 2 after getting as far as possible with level 3. It’s a tremendous confidence boost!
I feel a bit guilty lighting a potential stick of dynamite like this and then going missing for 24hrs (read as: went out drinking as soon as I hit Submit!!)
Will sit down and make some more informed replies when I’m near my laptop
If you’d asked me a month ago, I’d have said, “No, I’m not a Welsh speaker.” or “I’m just a learner.” or “Tipyn bach.” but that just changed a couple of weeks ago.
I had to go back to Wales for the funeral of my favourite aunt in the world. Although it was a really sad time, I was determined to take the opportunity to speak Welsh while I was there. I wasn’t too worried about being able to say what I wanted to say; but I was very nervous about whether or not I’d understand other people (I really struggle with Radio Cymru), and I must admit to a bit of an irrational fear of being unmasked as the fraud I am.
Well, I had three conversations in Welsh: One with a woman in the Anna Davies shop in Betws-y-Coed, one with a woman in a Welsh bookshop in Llandudno (where I managed to snag the very last copy of @CatrinLliarJones’ book “O Mam Bach” in the whole place), and one with an old friend. I experienced two amazing things with those conversations:
I understood every word all three of them said, except for just ONE word - “contactless” - I was paying for my book in Llandudno, and the woman said “Contactless?” to me. I was completely flummoxed for a minute. I don’t know that word! It doesn’t even sound Welsh! Then I realised - it’s English! I was so busy speaking Welsh that the English word just made no sense to me. (In fairness to me, they don’t say “contactless” for credit card transactions here - they say “tap.” So, it actually would have thrown me even in English.)
Both of the strangers that I talked to just answered me normally and continued with the conversation. Neither of them slowed down for me, neither asked if I was learning Welsh, both understood me perfectly. As far as I know, they might not even have realised I was “not a Welsh speaker” or “just a learner.”
…and that’s my tipping point. I’m not fluent, and I still have a long way to go, but I think I can say I am a Welsh speaker.
I always use the “Cymraeg” option at self-checkouts when I am in Cymru (still residing in England, but not for too much longer). I seem to recall at Tesco the till says “Dangos i Dalu” for “Contactless”. In other words, literally, “Show to Pay”.
Aled Hughes on Radio Cymru on Friday morning was asking people to ring in with suggestions for contactless. I forget the one he used, which was a good one, but someone suggested "Talu Awyr"and he said that one works. Didn’t listen to anymore as I got to work just after that, but an interesting one to have some fun with.
In one of my rare experiences of using Welsh in the “wild” (okay, it was Siop Y Pethe in Aberystwyth), I asked if I could pay by card and I’m sure the guy behind the counter asked me if I had “anghysylltiedig” (literally, uncontacted) and I congratulated myself on recognising the word (perhaps not that great an achievement, given the context!).
I heard this. It’s a nice little phrase, because it evokes thoughts of the phrase Malu Awyr, to discuss something with little aim or seriousness - to talk idly - and since contactless is used for small, everyday purchases, that don’t take much buying consideration, it works on more than one level.
Llongyfarchiadau mawr iawn Margaret! Sounds like you’ve well and truly turned a corner and that you’re definitely on a roll now! Well done on all the hard work and all the best with the next stage.
Thank you for buying the book and good luck with the reading!
I’ve been trying to think about whether there really was a ‘tipping point’ for me going from learner to speaker in my own head…I think it’s really been more of a sliding scale. After two trips to Wales (and another, more permanent one coming up) and becoming involved with the SSiW community both online and in real life, and by extension the Melbourne Welsh community, I’ve found the language just becoming a bigger and bigger influence on my life. As such, I’ve gradually moved from being a competent learner to a comfortable speaker just by virtue of using the language so much day to day. I was very reluctant to label myself a speaker for a long time, because I was working on a faulty definition of the word, but I came to realise that when I have friends who rarely (if ever) speak English to me, I can’t honestly say I’m still a learner anymore.
Sorry for the essay, I didn’t realise I had so much to say about the subject!
Hi. This sounds so like my journey. I battled with my parents to be allowed to do O level Welsh but never really used it. I did have a friend who spoke Welsh at home but never to me or anyone else at school. She would even reply to her Mum in English if she was on the phone and we we with her! After some years on England we moved to Llanrhystyd (near Aberystwyth) when two of our children were small and I started relearning but was always very nervous of speaking Welsh with anyone other than other learners because of all my mistakes. When we moved to Northumberland in 1989 there seemed no reason to continue so for the next 28 years I spoke no Welsh as even when we visited my parents in Caerdydd there was no reason to. But last year I can across SSiW and had a go at Challenge 1. I found I couldn’t stop as it was so different from how I’d learnt before. Actually hearing the Welsh spoken naturally and not just by other learners. Although I tried a speaking a little last year yn Sir Mon and panicking when someone spoke back to me! I have continued and hope to try again this year when we visit Sir Mon again and Sir Benfro. It really does seem now or never at my age and I want to reclaim a heritage which was lost to me when my great grandfather stopped speaking Welsh because he married a woman from Devon. Like many of the English speaking Welsh I have always felt a bit of a stranger in my own country. Not sure I’ll ever class myself as a Welsh speaker rather than a learner but hopefully this time I will become a fairly fluent learner as I have been inspired by people’s stories on SSiW
Some very thought-provoking responses here, which is great because it has encouraged dialogue on the issue - and I can see a couple of people who only realised during this whole thread that they were now bona fide Welsh speakers.
We seem to loosely fall into one of three categories.
1. Those who felt like a Welsh speaker very early in their journey. 2. Those who took a little longer but had some kind of “click moment” that made them feel like a Welsh speaker 3. Those who can speak Welsh, but not perhaps to the level that they would consider themselves a "Welsh speaker"
At the time of writing this, the results were tipped 68%/32% on the side of “Yes”, which is interesting as there are a fair few of you out there who don’t consider yourselves speakers of the language yet.
I hope this thread has given some kind of confidence to those who’ve marked themselves as “Speakers” and I hope it’s given those who marked themselves as “Non speakers” a bit of a re-evaluation.
I’m sure Iestyn says it in one of the first couple of lessons, “You genuinely are speaking Welsh” and I think that is true. Of course, someone who memorises a few stock phrases cannot speak a language - but if you’re doing it the SSIW way, taking words you know and messing around with them and making sentences of your own - you’re a genuine Welsh speaker. You may not have a massive vocabulary yet, but your’re still a speaker of the language!!
I was so busy speaking Welsh that the English word just made no sense to me. (In fairness to me, they don’t say “contactless” for credit card transactions here - they say “tap.” So, it actually would have thrown me even in English.)
