Differences between SSIW and evening class learning styles?

Well I had a lovely time in Wales last week. “Bws Sbri-Hi-Hi y Jyngl” went down very well with both the 1 year old I gave it to and his Mum. Unfortunately he had suspected chickenpox (which turned out not to be) so I didn’t get to throw myself into the welsh language toddler group but I got a few phrases in the wild and with his Mum. She has been learning at evening classes for a while and I was intrigued by the differences in how we communicated in welsh. She has a much bigger vocabulary but tends to make any sentence or request in only one way while I felt much more confident to play with different versions. At first that left me feeling like a small child overwhelmed by all the words I couldn’t understand or say. However remembering my experiences with learning German at school I suddenly realised how much easier it is to look up the word for a specific thing on your own than to figure out how to shuffle your language blocks around.

At some point she was trying to remember what the soft mutation of T would be. I must admit I had let myself glaze over the whole concept of different sorts of mutations while subconsciously clinging to the “don’t worry about this at all you’ll get used to it naturally” life raft. However in the I offered that trio became drio in dw’n mind i drio so maybe it was a D? When the relevant chart finally put in an appearance it turned out that I was right. What excited me most is that that is exactly the approach I would have taken to that kind of question about my first language. My knowledge of rules of english pronunciation and grammar were all tacked on after I learned to speak it and I remember them in relation to things I could already say when I learned about them. If someone asks I go with what sounds right and other examples only dredging up underlying mechanics if I need it to show that I did have an education. Maybe that’s why I’m enjoying this approach so much? Has anyone else had this sort of experience?

4 Likes

Yup, have had exactly the same experience as you. I no longer worry about mutations, they get in the way of me talking. Sometimes people correct me, sometimes they don’t. I always think of mutations as something like dropping your h’s in English to make things a bit quicker to say or roll off the tongue!

[quote=“hilary_coveney, post:1, topic:2417”]
My knowledge of rules of english pronunciation and grammar were all tacked on after I learned to speak it and I remember them in relation to things I could already say when I learned about them. If someone asks I go with what sounds right and other examples only dredging up underlying mechanics if I need it to show that I did have an education. Maybe that’s why I’m enjoying this approach so much? [/quote]

I think this is exactly right :smile:

2 Likes

Great to hear you enjoyed yourself, and even better to hear that you can see how natural your Welsh is (limited, yes, but limits can be broken as required!), and how well you’ve internalised the basic patterns that you need. That must be a really great feeling, and something that you are rightly quite proud about.

Mutations? I know Welsh school educated frst language speakers who couldn;t tell you what they are called or when they are used. They rarely miss one in speech though. If that’s where you are at, then welcome to being a natural Welsh speaker! I hope it feels good!

2 Likes

Yes yn fawr iawn diolch!

1 Like

Not having to worry about mutations has personally been a real “liberator” for me - it means that I’m now having a stab at learning Welsh properly instead of just dabbling in it “for fun”. And seemingly making real headway!

Before, it was always the mutations that discouraged me - I thought “I’ll never in a million years take in and remember all this stuff”. But being told not to worry about mutations (or grammar, for that matter) and to go with what (as Hilary says) “sounds right” - well, it opens a completely new and exciting door to language learning.

Speaking of “going with what sounds right” - I’m really amazed that even with my studies still at a fairly early stage (I haven’t even completed Course One yet) I’m already able in some cases to sense when I’ve said something that doesn’t quite jell. I belt out at a rate of knots my translation of Iestyn’s English sentence, and even before Cat’s voice comes on with the reply, it flashes into my mind “No,that sounds wrong”. So I hit the pause button, give my reply again, listen to Cat…and in 95% of cases my second attempt is correct. As I say, really amazing!

3 Likes

Wow - that is extraordinarily good, @gavinM, and very early in the process! When it “clicks” like that, it feels amazing doesn’t it?

1 Like

It is so sad that most people don’t have this experience. Why did mutations originate? Because they made things easier to say, or to ‘sound right’!! Language grows and evolves and people naturally say what is easiest as long as it’s not confusing!! I admit to a tendency to mutate unnecessarily! I haven’t a clue why!!! But I bet people would still understand me!!

4 Likes