The day is finally approaching when my eldest will be learning to drive. I’m going to get ‘D’ plates since we live in Cymru, but has anyone got any ideas as to using them in England? I can’t think of any reason why not, but it’ll be just my luck that some little quirk of law means I have to change from D to L as we cross the border…
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It’s an interesting question - maybe the DVLA is the right first place to try and get clarity - I can’t see anything that is more specific than ‘when in Wales you can use D plates’ - it is, as always, very tricky to make out what is and what isn’t devolved…
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I just checked. The rules say, “must have L plate on front and back. In Wales can have D plate instead,” Legally that means D plates no good except in Wales, so if your eldest wants to drive outside Wales, you’ll need to change to L or put on both just before crossing the border!
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No, it doesn’t, it means it’s unclear - because it doesn’t state specifically whether or the ‘in Wales’ means ‘if you live in Wales, you can instead opt for D plates (which are by implication road legal throughout the UK)’ or if it means ‘you may have D plates only while you are physically in Wales’.
I would imagine it is something to which the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales has given no thought at all, and that there is probably no existing legal precedent.
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Aran it says, “L plates must be on the front and back!” So anywhere in UK that is true! But, in Wales, D plates may be displayed instead. Nothing about where you live, just that IN Wales D plates are allowed. I am sorry, but I spent years reading and applying Acts of Parliament, Codes of Practice and Regulations! It is always safer to err on the safe side! In this case I think the intention is clear and UK always wins outside Wales, I’m afraid.
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Yes, it’s clear that you think that. I’m just making the point to Rich that it’s your opinion, rather than established legal fact.
I would imagine in practice that border areas, particularly those near Welsh-speaking communities, would take a laissez-faire attitude towards this, given how many roads leave and rejoin Wales within a matter of a few minutes.
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So thats an option that I hadn’t considered, many thanks, and would certainly help when it came to issues surrounding valid insurance and related things.
Yes, that thought also struck me. It’s interesting that someone living in England can choose to register with a dentist in Wales, or send children to a school in Wales, and that process is allowable in reverse and both of those areas are subject to degrees of devolved control and yet popping over the border, even as part of a journey thats largely in Wales may fall foul of the regulations
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Probably depends where you’re driving. If you’re on the border, you’d probably get away with it. If you were somewhere like, say, Surrey, you’d probably draw more attention. For the cost, probably worth buying both. All for the D plates this side of the border.
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Ha, yes, and the mischievous side of me would still be tempted to chance my luck in Surrey!
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I’ve had a plunge into the The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999, and it does appear that the D plate is only valid in Wales (i.e. on roads in Wales).
I’ve only copied the relevant bits and had to follow several links back and forth to get the whole story:
Conditions attached to provisional licences
16.—(1) A provisional licence of any class is granted subject to the conditions prescribed in relation to a licence of that class in the following paragraphs.
(2) Subject to the following paragraphs, the holder of a provisional licence shall not drive a vehicle of a class which he is authorised to drive by virtue of that licence—
(b)unless a distinguishing mark in the form set out in Part 1 of Schedule 4 is displayed on the vehicle in such manner as to be clearly visible to other persons using the road from within a reasonable distance from the front and from the back of the vehicle
(4) The condition specified in paragraph (2)(b) shall not apply—
(a)when the holder of the provisional licence is driving a motor vehicle on a road in Wales, and
(b)a distinguishing mark in the form set out in Part 2 of Schedule 4 is displayed on the motor vehicle in the manner described in paragraph (2)(b).
Regulation 16
SCHEDULE 4
DISTINGUISHING MARKS TO BE DISPLAYED ON A MOTOR VEHICLE BEING DRIVEN UNDER A PROVISIONAL LICENCE
SCHEDULE 4
PART 1
Diagram of distinguishing mark to be displayed on a motor vehicle in England, Wales or Scotland.
(pic of standard L plate)
Red letter on white ground.
The corners of the ground can be rounded off.
PART 2
Diagram of optional distinguishing mark to be displayed on a motor vehicle in Wales if a mark in the form set out in Part 1 is not displayed.
(pic of standard D plate)
Red letter on white ground.
The corners of the ground can be rounded off.
Then Annex 3 of the Highway Code states:
Laws MV(DL)R reg 16 & RTA 1988 sect 87
Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used.
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Many thanks for all of that, very comprehensive!
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Even on my days off it seems I can’t resist a bit of researching! 
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Diolch Siaron. I, of course, paraphrased and interpreted, as I was used to as an Advisor at work!!!
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In my line of work I have to provide the backup evidence then the TV directors and producers do the paraphrasing and interpreting 
I do think it should be easier to find the regulation stated in layman’s terms without having to trog through the actual legal Act though. It is a bit ambiguous on the DVLA site - you’d only need one jobsworth to pull you up on it and you could end up with points on your provisional licence - definitely not good for future insurance premiums.
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What is ironic, Siaron, is that my profession advise the Government on Heath & Safety Legislation (radiation aspects of). White paper results, very clear. Votes happen. So we move to production of Act of Parliament. And a whole department in Westminster ( and, presumably Cardiff Bay) has the job of removing any possible ambiguity by turning nice clear English into a special ‘legalise’ used for Acts! Used to drive us mad! The definition of closing a road involved in depth definition of tape, notices, bollards, cones etc…
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